ANSWERS: 76
  • No. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) is not considered to be a part of the Christian Church according to orthodox Christian theology. Their are many reasons why, but the two most important I know of are: 1. Mormons deny the Trinitarian exist of God. Christian theology teaches that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost) are simultaneously one being (the Godhead) and three separate divine beings (God the Father, God the Son, God the Spirit), each completely God. Mormons believe that only God the Father, whom they refer to as the Heavenly Father, is truly God. They believe Jesus and the Holy Ghost are spiritual, and thus a part of their definition of the Godhead, but they do not believe that they are God as God the Father is God. 2. Mormons do not believe the Bible is the only inspired Word of God. Christians believe the Bible is the only revealed, inspired Word of God. In other words: Christians submit completely to the Bible's authority, and only to the Bible's authority. Mormons believe that along with the Bible the Book of Mormon also carries divine authority. These only touch at the surface. For a more complete answer go here http://www.namb.net/root/resources/beliefbulletins/cults/mormon_comparison.asp Concerning the link: I am not a Southern Baptist. But their views presented in this article concerning Historic Christianity are the same views held by all other Christian denominations.
  • As a Mormon myself, I cannot agree with the previous answer. Webster's Dictionary defines a Christian as "A person professing belief in Jesus Christ or his teachings." Considering the name of our church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) I do not understand how there can be any doubt as to whether or not we are Christian. Not only do we believe in Christ, but we believe Him to be a completely unique and perfected being. He is an entirely indivdual entity and is God's own Son--in the most literal sense. The LDS religion teaches His doctrine as our theology and uses his life as an example for our own. We are fortunate because not only do we have, and believe in, the Bible (as long as it is translated correctly), but we have the Book of Mormon. This second book of scripture is another testimony and witness of Christ as seen by the peoples of the American Continents. We preach and learn of his miracles, of his sacrifice, and of his continued life after death. We sing of Him, we speak of Him, and promise every Sunday that we might always remember Him. I am a practicing Mormon young woman and I can testify that I believe in Christ with all my soul. I know that He lived a sinless life here on Earth where He taught and served the world for the sakes of everyone who has ever lived and will ever live on it. He died for our sins, that we may all excape the chains of death. I praise Him and love Him along with the other members of my gospel.
    • AndyP
      dont you? If all has been created by the same God there must be some kind of connection.
  • That really depends on what your definition of "Christian" is. If you define "Christian" as one who "[professes] belief in Jesus as Christ or [follows] the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus" as the American Heritage Dictionary does, then yes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a Christian denomination. Followers of the Church profess a belief in Jesus as the Christ and the leaders of the church for nearly 200 years have taught Christian principles (such as loving your neighbour, being redeemed from sin and putting faith in God). If you define "Christian" as one who accepts tenets of traditional Christianity (such as the trinity, the infallibility and exclusivity of the Bible, etc), then no the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a Christan denomination. So in order to offer an accurate answer, we would first need to determine your definition of "Christian". I hope this helps.
    • Gone!
      Firest... you must understand who Jesus Christ is. Mormons believe in a different Jesus. They believe he is the brother of Satan, but won the contest (loosely speaking) for the plan of salvation. That's why Satan became who he is, and so on. Mormons believe that different God's will rule different planets. Therefore, the God ruling this planet was one a man on another planet, and so on. So... you see... if the foundation is loppy... Just saying you're a Christian doesn't make it all better. They do not base their believe on God Holy Word, the Scripture... but yet look to JS as a way to their salvation. Not a Christian Denomination, but a cult in it's truest most deceiptful form. A pseudo-Christian cult.
  • 1 - First of all the word "Bible" means a collection of books, not one book. John is not talking about the entire book of scriptures we call the Bible, he is only talking about the words and prophesies of "this" (his) book that he wrote. The plagues he is talking about are the ones in the Book of Revelation (See Rev. 9:20, 11:6, 15:1, 15:6). A similar scripture appears in Deut. 4:2, where Moses says: "Ye shall not add unto the word I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you." Does this mean that everything written after this scripture is worthless or wrong? Also, some of the New Testamant books were written after Revelation. In fact, the entire cannon of Bible scriptures was not completely complied, as we have it now, at the time John wrote his scripture. The earliest known listing of New Testament books is the Muratorian Cannon, ca AD 160-170 which omits 2 Peter and 3 John. It was not until 365 AD that all 27 books as we have them now were officially listed in the New Testament by Arthanasius, Bishop of Alexandria. Moses and John were correct when they imply that no man has authority to add or subtract from the word of God. However, they did not mean that God could give no more revelation or scripture, but that the inspired words of God given to his apostles and prophets should not be altered by men. 2 - The idea that "Mormons" are not Christians has its origin in the "Mormons'" belief in God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit (Ghost). Most Christian religions belief in the "Trinity" is that God, Chirst, and the Holy Spirit are the same or "one substance". This was ratified in the "Nicene Creed" which a major of religions believe in and support. The "Mormons" believe that God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit (or Ghost as Mormons refer) are three (3) seperate individuals with the same purpose, "...to bring to past the immortallity and eternal life of man". Because "Mormons" do not agree with the traditional meaning of the "Trinity" some consider we are not Christians. 3 - I do not know of any "Mormon" that believes that Peter hung Judas. Please give your reference on this topic. I would love to hear the "whole" story/idea. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.
  • No. Christians believe in the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as three persons of the one true God. Mormons do not believe this. More importantly, Christians believe that the death of Jesus on the cross paid the price for our sins, and his resurection 3 days later was the ultimate victory over sin and Satan. Christians believe that our salvation is dependant upon faith in these two points. Mormons do not believe in either of these points. Yes, the creeds codified what is in the bible for Christians; the bible clearly refers to the trinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If "man-made creeds" cannot be used to define Christianity, the Book of Mormon is then also irrelevant to ones faith. Christianity was defined in the first century after Christs death, Mormons do not fit this definition and have changed the definition so that they can fit in.
  • Yes, Mormonism is a Christian religion. Its other peoples' opinions that we are not, mormons. But, we do believe in the bible as well as the book of mormon, we also believe in Jesus Christ, the holy ghost and Heavenly Father. Although, we deny the existance of the trinity. When jesus was in the sacred grove praying to his father in heaven. (If Jesus Christ The Holy Ghost and Heavenly Father are all one, then the question is, who was Jesus Christ praying to?) Unfortunately, those three are not just one God. But, they are seperate beings. Because, it clearly states that, if they were one entire powerful holy being, then Jesus Christ was praying to himself, which is pretty stupid. So, whether or not we believe in the same things as the "other" christians believe in, we are still considered christian. (If you go back to the home page of "religions" you will see "mormonism" is clearly stated in the "christians religions.") Nice try mormon bashers, but, we are a christian religion, whether you want to believe it or not. So, you can just stop saying that we are not a christian religion, and do something "more" productive with your lives. : )
    • Gone!
      "Clearly stated in the "christian religions"... OHHH... then it must be true. No. They are a pseudo-Christian cult, where Jesus is not the Jesus of Scripture... but a made up brother of Satan. Their God was once a man like you. Of course you deny the trinity... as your god was a man. Your Jesus was the brother of Satan. And if you do good... you will ruin your own planet. If you don't know... then please don't quote things as fact. You may check my statements if necessary and you'll find them to be true. That's called being productive and proactive in your faith. Find out the truth about the cult you're in. In addition, your argument about who Jesus was praying to is weak and would take nothing more than reading scripture to know that the Son was speaking to the Father. They conversed. There is a Father, there is a Son, there is a Holy Spirit... God.
    • Gone!
      or run your own planet... although ruin works too! lol
  • No, they dont really believe that Jesus is God's son. they only believe he was like a good person. which is not true, because Jesus is God's son (in the Christian religion) they believe that they can get to heaven by doing good deeds.....um.......NOOOOOOO it's good to do good things but that wont get u to heaven.
  • Yes, if the one who calls himself a Mormon follows the teachings of the book of Mormon. I have a copy of the book. The very first page says: "The Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ". This is followed by a few pages describing the contents of the book with testimonies referring to "God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ"—our Lord" almost precedes Jesus’ name everywhere. After the testimonies, there is a table contents listing the 15 books making up the Book of Mormon. After the table of contents, there is a page listing abbreviations and designations used in the footnotes throughout the book. The list contains abbreviations for each of the books of the bible, Old Testament new. In other words one who reads this book is directed to the bible. Christ birth and resurrection are included. Confessing Jesus as Lord and believing that GOD resurrected him from the dead. is the condition for salvation. Those who say and believe this are the Children of GOD the true Christians.
  • There is no universally accepted arbiter of what "Christian" means. Most Christian churches would say that David Koresh and/or his followers was/were not really Christian, but they would almost certainly have classified themselves as Christian (since Koresh claimed to be the returned Christ, if I remember right). Some (but not all) groups with the title "Church of Christ" claim that no one outside their church is really a Christian. So, the bottom line is: it depends on whom you ask and how one defines "Christian." I suspect it breaks down about like this: among traditional/historic Christian churches, no; among LDS, yes; among those who do not claim to be Christian, mostly yes.
  • The definition of Christian means a follower of Christ. Therefore, in order to be Christian you must believe in what he said and he said he was God incarnate (God came to earth in the form of man to save us). It is not enough to believe that he was merely a good and perfect man... if he was merely a good and perfect man and he said he was God... then he wasn't really a good and perfect man, but a fraud and a liar... There is only one true God... the commandments say we shall not have other Gods besides him. Here are a few passages from the bible where Jesus states he was God... John 8:24 "That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." John 8:58 "Amen Amen I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM." John 13:19 "From now on I am telling you before it happens, so that when it happens you may believe that I AM." When God revealed himself to Moses, he said his name was I AM. How dare Jesus use that phrase if he was truly just a good and perfect man. That would be blasphemous not good or perfect. John 13:34-35 "I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one onother." Who else but God can give a new commandment? And there are hundreds more passages where he says that he is I AM. When he rose from the dead and appeared again to the disciples, he directed the apostles to baptize the people in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (the Trinity). This is why the mormon religion does not believe the bible is accurate, because then, the foundation on which their religion is built would fall to pieces. There's too many inconsistencies. Challenge your faith, its important and necessary... study what others say about you and see if you can reconcile it in prayer not from other human teachings, study other's religions. The truth will emerge and will not be denied to an open mind.
  • Mormonism is not an "orthodox" Christian sect. They recognise certain historical facts about orthodox Christianity (that is traditional Christianity), but have re-interpreted many crucial aspects of the faith. According to the orthodox reading of the Torah or the Old Testament, there is only One True God, He has always been God, and always will be God. According to Mormon theology our god was once a man, but through faith and obedience was glorified, became god over us, and now guides us so that we might similarly one day be glorified. No orthodox Jew or Christian would ever accept this scripturally unsupportable thesis, as it violates the Ten Commandments and the most basic doctrine of their faith.
  • As you can see by the different posts, this is a controversial question, with the answers being based on how one defines Christianity. The Bible only mentions Christianity a few times and the definition there is vague at best. There are three things for me that are true about the Bible. On some tenets it is very clear about, some tenets it is vague about, and some tenets it is silent about. My observation is that wherever the Bible is vague is where the Christians seem to bicker. This is not bad. It seems that we are all after the Truth. On some issues we have more questions than answers. In those areas many try to speculate. Because religion is so internal to many, I can see why many cannot call speculation what it is, speculation, because they are attached to their own speculation. It is my observation that the Bible is not common ground for different religions, but some have made it a battleground. I do not believe this was God's intention. I will pose a simple question to the reader and you can come up with your own conclusion about whether Mormons are Christians based upon the way you answer the question. If you were alive in Jesus' day and you wanted to know more about the teachings of Jesus, who would you ask, Jesus or the Sanhedrin? If your answer is the Sanhedrin, then you should investigate what the opposition to Mormonism says. If you answer is Jesus, then let me refer you to what the Mormons say about this subject. http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai052.html
  • It is all personal opinion.
  • After reading a number of the answers from what appear to be Mormon authors, it seems to me there was a theme. Almost all thought that having the words "Jesus Christ" in the name of their church meant that they have the right to be called Christians. I am not saying that this is their total reasoning for thinking that they should be called Christians, just part of it. Even so, this thinking is not logical at all. It is like saying... If do my shopping at Albertson's Supermarket then I know the Alberton family very well. Not too logical is it. Being Christian means to be Christ-like. To be Christ-like (not to be confused with being a God) is to humble your self and become a servant. To be believe that Christ's death and resurrection has saved us from ALL of ours sins. You just have to put your faith in Christ. Your faith is only as good as who it is you put your faith in. If you put your faith in Christ who is True Man and True God, who is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit, who is the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and the end, the Prince of Peace, is One God, who knows of know other God... Then your are a Christian. Otherwise, you are not. I am sorry you feel this way Bob Blaylock... what is wrong with this answer?
  • No...it is NOT considered a Christian religion......and this is why: Christians believe in ONE God (Isaiah 43:11; 44:6,8; 45:5)...but the LDS church believes in many gods (And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3))....now if someone wants to comment on the possible idea that these "gods" were the Trinity...let me explain the differences in LDS and Christian views on that... The Christian view of the Trinity is as follows: The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all the universe and that He exists in three, eternal, simultaneous persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This means that there is still only ONE God....NOT THREE!! The LDS view on the trinity is as follows: The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.) Christians also believe that God has always been God (Psalm 90:2; Isaiah 57:15)...the LDS Church teaches differently: "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345) Christians believe that God is a spirit without flesh and bone (John 4:24; Luke 24:39)....LDS teach that God is made of flesh and bone: "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's" (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22. Compare with Alma 18:26-27; 22:9-10) "Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38). Christians believe that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary (Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23)...LDS believe otherwise: "The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115) "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine," by Bruce McConkie, p. 547) Christians believe that Jesus is the eternal Son. He is second person of the Trinity. He has two natures. He is God in flesh and man (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2;9) and the creator of all things (Col. 1:15-17). The LDS believe that Jesus is the literal spirit-brother of Lucifer, a creation. (Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15) Christians believe that The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. He is not a force. He is a person. (Acts 5:3-4; 13:2)....the LDS believe Mormonism distinguishes between the Holy Spirit (God's presence via an essence) and the Holy Ghost (the third god in the Mormon doctrine of the trinity). "He [the Holy Ghost] is a being endowed with the attributes and powers of Deity, and not a mere force, or essence (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 144) Christian's believe that salvation is the forgiveness of sin and deliverance of the sinner from damnation. It is a free gift received by God's grace (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 6:23) and cannot be earned (Rom. 11:6)....LDS believe that salvation has a double meaning: universal resurrection and . . . "The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79 Christian's believe that salvation (forgiveness of sins) is not by works (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 4:5; Gal. 2:21)...the LDS believe "As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.'" (Articles of Faith p. 79) Christian's believe that the Bible is the inspired inerrant word of God (2 Tim. 3:16). It is authoritative in all subjects it addresses....the LDS see it differently: "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. . ." 8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church A HUGE difference between Christians and LDS is how each defines Christian terminology: BIBLE LDS - The Bible is correct only as far as it is correctly translated. It is basically trustworthy. It is the only one of the four standard works (Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price) that is not considered infallible. Christian- the Bible is the inspired inerrant word of God (2 Timothy 3:16). SALVATION LDS - Simple bodily resurrection. It does not simply mean forgiveness of sins. Jesus died for universal resurrection. Christian - Forgiveness of sins with the result of a present new life and in the future eternal life with God (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Rom. 6:23; Rom. 10:9-10). HEAVEN LDS - Divided into three Kingdoms: Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial. The Celestial is for perfect Mormons, the Terrestrial is for moral people and lukewarm LDS, and the Telestial Kingdom is for everyone else. Christian - The dwelling place of God (1 Kings 8:30). Christians go to heaven. KINGDOM OF GOD LDS - Celestial heaven. Christian - All the believers of Christ (Matt. 13:41-43). HOLY GHOST LDS - "A spirit man. He can only be at one place at one time... " (Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, p. 359.) The Holy Ghost is contrasted with the Spirit of God which is the influence of the Godhead that fills the immensity of space which enables God to know what is going on. It is likened to electricity." Christian - Third person of the Trinity. Same as Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4). ETERNAL LIFE LDS - Exaltation (exaltation to a Mormon means obtaining Godhood) in the Celestial Kingdom. Christian- Forgiveness of sins and life eternal with God (John 17:3; Rom. 6:23). GODHEAD LDS - An office held by three separate Gods: the Father who is a god; Jesus who is a god; and the Holy Ghost who is a god. Christian- God Himself, not an office. Three persons in one God. A Trinity: The Father; the Son; and the Holy Spirit. JESUS LDS - Spirit brother of Satan. A god in the Godhead. He is Jehovah of the O.T. compared to Elohim being the Father. He was the first spirit child to be born to the Father and Mother gods. Christian- Jesus is God, second person of the Trinity (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9). ATONEMENT LDS - The sacrifice of Christ that made resurrection possible along with the possibility of our earning forgiveness of sins. Christian- The substitutionary sacrifice of Jesus on our behalf. He died for OUR sins (1 Pet. 2:24; 1 John 2:2). PRE-EXISTENCE LDS - We existed in heaven with God our (literal) Father before we became human. Christian - We did not exist before we came to earth (1 Cor. 15:46). GOSPEL LDS - The laws and the ordinances of the Mormon church. Christian - The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for our sins (1 Cor. 15:1-4). Here is a skit that I think illustrates the differences between th LDS church and the Christian church: Matt: Hi. How's it going? Are you talking to this guy about Mormonism? Mark: Yes, we are. We've given him some literature to read and were about to explain what we believe to him. Are you a Mormon? Matt: No. But do you mind if I listen to the conversation? Mark: Not at all. Mark: As I was saying Peter, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that there is only one God, that there is a Trinity, and that we are saved by grace. Peter: That's great. I was wondering if you guys were Christian or not. I've heard different things about you and my preacher last year said that your church wasn't Christian. Mark: Oh yes, we are definitely Christian. We believe in the same Jesus and God as you do. We believe the Bible is God's word just like you. Usually the people who don't think we're Christian don't know what we believe and have only listened to anti-Mormon stuff. But, we are Christian. We believe in the Jesus of the Bible, in His Father, and in salvation by grace. Peter: That’s great. You guys sure sound Christian to me. Matt: Excuse me, can I interject something here? Mark: Of course, go ahead. Matt: Peter, so you think they are Christian because they say they believe in one God, in the Trinity, and salvation by grace? Peter: Yep. They are Christians. Matt: Could I run something by you real quick? Peter: Sure. Matt: I'd like you to tell me if you think this is Christian. What if I said that I believed that god used to be a man on another world and he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of that god on that world. And, that when he became a god, he raised his wife to goddess hood. So, god then has a goddess wife. They both have physical form. And what if I added that they both came to this world and produce spirit children in heaven. These spirit children then inhabit babies during birth and that each of them has the potential to be like god and become gods of their own worlds? What would you think of that if I said it that way? Peter: Well, I don’t know. It doesn’t sound like anything I’ve heard in the Bible. I guess I’d have to disagree with you. Matt: Okay, and what if I said that I believed that god and his wife produced Jesus and the Holy Ghost in heaven and that the three of them are three gods and that together they form the one Godhead known as the Trinity? What would you think of that? Peter: Well, I know that isn't what the Bible teaches so I would disagree with you again. Matt: Well, Peter, that is what Mormonism teaches. Peter: No way… come on. It does not. Matt: Okay Mark, is what I said true? Mark: Well, not exactly. You've worded it in such a way to make it sound bad. Matt: Okay then, why don't you tell him what you believe in your own words? Mark: We believe in God the Father, and in his Son Jesus Christ who is our savior. We believe we have the potential to be like Heavenly Father and return to him one day. Matt: Peter, did what he just said jive what I said Mormonism teaches? Peter: No. They are different. Matt: Which is true, Mark? Mark: Well, there are some things that are difficult to understand and you don't just go telling them to people until they've learned all the basics. You’re taking things out of context. Matt: I don't see why you just don't tell them the whole thing up front? Tell them you believe you can become a god and that there is a goddess mother in heaven? Mark: Matt, I think you’re being very rude and contentious. I don’t feel the spirit of God here. Matt: I don’t mean to be contentious. But I do intend to simply tell Peter what Mormonism teaches. Is that okay? Mark: You don’t understand Mormonism. You are taking everything out of context. Peter: Matt, you aren't serious are you? Where'd you get this information? Matt: I got it from Mormon writers. Mark, you said you believed in one God, right? Mark: Yes, we believe in only one God. Matt: Let me ask you. Is Jesus a member of the Trinity? Mark: Yes. Matt: Is Jesus a god? Mark: Yes. Matt: Then that means there are two gods, right? Mark. There is only one God. We believe in only one of them. Matt: You just said that Jesus is a god. He with the father makes two gods. And also, isn't the Holy Ghost a god, too? Mark: Yes. Matt: Then that is three gods. And, there is the wife of Heavenly Father, right? That makes four. So, isn’t it true that what you are saying is that you believe that many gods exist but you serve and worship only one of them. Mark: I do not appreciate the manner in which you are discussing this. I feel the spirit of contention here. I think we should leave. Matt: My apologies Mark. I mean no offense, but I believe you are trained to respond in such a way that is misleading. I'd appreciate it if you would correct me and show me where I am wrong when I say something. Peter: I'm interest in knowing what the truth is here. Can we continue? Mark: I'd like to, but I don't like the manner that he is presenting this. It is degrading and insulting. Why don't you leave? Peter: I'd like him to stay. Matt: I apologies for being blunt, but I don't know any other way to get the point accross. We are talking about the fundamental nature of God. He can't be described in generic, vague terms. We need to know what you mean by the term "God" as compared to what we mean as Christians. I propose to you that they are not the same. You use the same words, but not the same definitions. Mark: I disagree. We believe in the same God you do. Matt: Well, I don't think so. The Bible says that God has always been God (Psalm 90:2) and that God doesn't even know of any other gods (Isaiah 44:6,8). In Mormonism, god is an exalted man from another world, right? Mark: Well, technically that is correct, but there is more to it than that. Matt: Like what? Mark: For one, we believe in eternal progression and the right of God’s children to become like him. After all, the Bible says we are children of God and that we are to become perfect as heavenly father is perfect. Matt: See, you are making my case for me. We don’t mean the same thing by the words used here. In Christianity, being God’s children doesn’t mean there is a mother goddess who’s married to God the Father and they produce spirit children. Instead, it is speaking of adoption (Romans 8). Also, being perfect (Matt. 5:48) does not mean becoming a god, but loving all people as God does. It is clear when you read the context of Matt. 5:43-48. Also, when Christians speak of God, they mean a single being called God, not one of three gods in the godhead. They don’t mean a god who used to be a man on another world and has a goddess wife. The beliefs are radically different. Mark: Look. I think you’re rude and wording things to make us look bad. Matt: How? Were you going to tell Peter here these things? Or were you going to tell him about loving God, believing in salvation by grace, and let him think you mean something different than you do? That isn’t right. Peter: Is this true Mark? Do you guys really believe there is a goddess mother in heaven? Mark: Well, it isn’t taught as official doctrine by the church. Matt: But do you believe it? Mark: .....Yes. Matt: If it isn’t taught as official church doctrine, then why do you believe it? Mark: It isn’t officially taught, but it only makes sense that if we have a Father, that we’d also have a mother. Matt: Perhaps it makes sense on the human level. But spiritual truth is determined by the Bible, not by human feelings or logic. The Bible states that there are no other gods beside God. In fact, God says that he doesn’t even know of any other gods (Isaiah 44:6,8). Now, if he has a goddess wife, wouldn’t he know about her? Mark: There you go twisting things again? Matt: How am I twisting this? I am applying biblical statements to our conversation. Mark: I think you’re rude and I don’t want to talk about this anymore. Peter: No, please don’t go. This is very interesting. Matt, perhaps you could be gentler in your approach. Matt: Mark, I apologize for any rudeness. I am not trying to be mean. Can we continue? Mark: Since Peter asked, sure. Matt: Well then, why don’t you state what you believe to Peter. Mark: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints The LDS Church states that Jesus is the Son of God, the Creator of the universe, and the savior and redeemer of the world. How much more Christian can you get than that? I know, and I will know for the rest of my life, that the LDS Church is a Christian Church. Peter: That sounds pretty good. But is it true that you believe God came from another planet? Mark: He didn’t originate on another world. He’s eternal. We believe in eternal intelligences. God simply resided on another world before coming here. Matt: But doesn’t Mormonism teach that God used to dwell on another world, as a man, and that he became a God through exaltation and is now the God of this earth? Mark: Yes. Peter: What? Mark: We believe in eternal progression. We believe we are capable of being like Heavenly Father. We teach that as man is, God once was. As God is, man may become. Peter: So you’re saying you believe you can become a god? Mark: Yes, we believe we all have that potential? Peter: But it doesn’t teach that in the Bible. Mark: Actually, it does. The Bible says that we are to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. Peter: Really? I didn’t know that. Matt: Hold on a second. I already mentioned that that verse, which is Matt. 5:48, is not about becoming a god. It is about love. Mark, may I use your Bible and can we read the context? Mark: Sure [reluctantly]. Matt: Here it is in the King James version. "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. So you see? It is dealing with loving all people equally. Not becoming a god. Mark. But Jesus said, "Ye are gods." Matt: That was John 10:34 which is a quote from Psalm 82:6. In John 10:30, Jesus had claimed to be one with God and the Pharisees got upset with Him and wanted to kill Him. He defended His position by quoting Psalm 82:6. In that Psalm, God is mocking the religious leaders of the day who had the power of life and death over their subjects. God says in the very next verse, "Nevertheless, you will die like men." In addition to that, Mark, your own apostle, James Talmage says in his book, Jesus the Christ, on the bottom of page 501, that that verse is not about becoming gods, but about the improper use of power by the religious leaders... just like I said. Check it out for yourselves. Mark: I suppose you’ve got an answer for everything. Matt: Hardly, there is much I don’t know. But I do know that the Bible teaches that God said there is only one God, not more than one. Would you like to see the verses... Mark: No, that’s okay. I think it’s time for us to leave. The contention here is too strong. Matt: Well, before you go, I’d like to say one last thing. You stated that you believe in God, the same God that I believe in. Yet, you believe he came from another world and has a goddess wife. I don’t believe that and from what I see, the Bible doesn’t teach it. So, they aren’t the same then are they. Mark: I suppose not. Matt: Then, why would you use the same words we use to speak to some like Peter here? Isn’t that misleading him. Mark: Time to go. Matt: Okay, I’ll see you later I hope. Thank you for reading this!! :)
  • The answer here is No. The reason is actually simple and has very little to do with an exact definition of "Christianity". The 66 books of the traditional Bible are recognized by both Mormons and Christians as cannonical scripture. A.K.A. the words of God. The Mormons want add to this with at least 3 other works. That is really irrelevant to the question at hand. Since the traditional Bible is considered to be scripture by both we will stay there. The Jesus Christ described in the Bible is not an angel. But, Satan is described as a fallen angel. Angels are not men. Therefore Satan and Jesus, as described in the Bible are not brothers. They would therefore be two different people. The Jesus of the Bible is the only begotten son of God. The God of the Bible is not a glorified man. Therefore the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of Mormonism have two different fathers. They therefore are not the same person. The Mormon Jesus Christ and the Biblical Jesus Christ are two different people. The followers of the Christ of the Bible are "Christians". Therefore Mormons, even though they want to use the same terminology, are not Christian in the Biblical since of the word. In other words, they do not follow the same Christ and are therefore not Christian. [Respose to Glen Blalock] You do teach that God is a man? The God of the Bible is not a man. I don't see that I am confused. I have clarified things a little below. I was trying to be brief and it did not work out so well. I contended that the definition of Christianity is not the question, but rather are the Jesus of the Mormons and the Jesus of Christianity the same person? I say no. What follows is more as to why: There is only one God. There are not many Gods. “You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other.” – Deuteronomy 4:35 Deut. 4:39; 32:39; 2 Sam. 22:32; Isa. 37:20; 43:10; 44:6-8; 45:5, 14, 21-22; 46:9 Rom. 16:27; 1 Cor. 8:4-6; Gal. 3:20; Eph. 4:6, 1 Tim. 1:17; 2:5; James 2:19; Jude 25. God is not a glorified man. Num 23:19; Hosea 11:9; 1Samuel 15:29; John 4:24 There is but ONE and exactly ONE true God. Deut. 32:21; 1 Sam. 12:21; Isa. 37:19; 41:23-24, 29; Jer. 2:11; 5:7; 16:20; 1 Cor. 10:19-20. These scriptures from the 66 books of the traditional Bible are 180 degrees out from Mormon Theology concerning God. We both believe God is Chirst's father. The God of Mormonism is a man and the God of Christianity is NOT. The only logical conclusion is that since these two Christs have two different fathers then they must not be the same person regardless of how much Christian terminology the Mormons espouse. If their father's are not the same then they CANNOT be the same person. Therefore it is impossible for Mormons to be Christians. Christians are also monothestic, and Mormons are polythestic these two things cannot co-exist in one religon. Mormons are not Christian. All of the scripture listed have one common theme. There is and can be only one God and he is not a man. The Bible is very very clear. I am not ignorant of what it says. Do the Mormons believe there are many Gods and any faithful Mormon may be glorfied and become a God or not? If not, then what is all this about "as god once was, man is now, and as God is now, man may become" stuff from the Mormon church - more specifically its so called "prophets" (Snow)? If you may become a God then by definition your faith is POLYTHEISTIC - (belief in or worship of more than one god) , whether you worship the other Gods or not is irrelavent (attention to the belief in). The FACT is that yours is a faith of MANY Gods and Christianity has ONE, one and only ONE God period. The two theologies are completely incompatiable. The God of Mormonism and the God of the Bible are two different enities. Therefore their offspring cannot be the same person - making it impossible for your Jesus and the one described in the Bible to be the same person. It is therefore completely IMPOSSIBLE for you to be Christian in any sense of the word.
  • For those who are keen to find the roots of Mormonism and its differences from Christianity, I would suggest the book "Unmasking Mormonism: Who are the Latter-day Saints?", by Selwyn Stevens. To those who are so furiously denouncing any negative opinions in this topic, I *challenge* you to get this book and read it. There are a huge number of issues that raise this strife as to Mormon identity, and the abovementioned book covers quite a lot. Firstly, the Book of Mormon is not the only authorative text in Mormonism. There are three main others that I am aware of: "Doctrine and Covenants", "Pearl of Great Price", and "Mormon Doctrine". These texts are in conflict with the canonised bible regarding key themes of Christian belief. In fact, Mr. Stevens has managed to list 15 alone that conflict with just the nature of God and Jesus. There *are* Mormon writings that say God is a man. The origins of the Book of Mormon are dubious, as is the character of the man who invented it. Throughout the years, many inconsistencies have been found that clash with the bible. Now if the Bible says that God is unchanging "The same yesterday, today and tomorrow", then either Christianity is incorrect, or Mormonism is incorrect, since their teachings are so different. Considering that the texts in the Bible have been archeologically verified to have been written in ancient times, and there is no evidence to support any ancient writing of Mormonism, the authenticity of the Book of Mormon is brought into question. From the research that has been conducted by very skilled scholars, archeologists and historians, not only is Mormonism NOT Christianity, from a Christian point of view Mormonism is false religion. It does not worship the same God as Christians, and does not hold the same beliefs regarding Jesus. If the First Commandment of the Torah says that "You shall have no other God besides me", and the Mormons are worshipping a God who is not "I AM" (The name the God of the Bible calls himself), then they are worshipping another god.
  • Several years ago I had two Mormon missionaries try to convert me, however, instead of just blindly leaping in, I decided to research it. I have checked varied sources, all of whom are highly credentialled, respected authorities on the subject. You may claim they are falsehoods, but these things are on public record, and have been under public scrutiny many times. The findings given by researchers, historians and archeologists all agree, and have been generally verified as true and correct fact. These are not falsehoods, nor are they made up. Now I'm not here to argue theology. You have your beliefs and I have mine. The reason I am still a Christian and not a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness is because I have researched not only these two, but Christianity itself as well. Only Christianity has been able to stand up to scrutiny. Further to that, I have witnessed first-hand God's power moving in Christians: miracle healings, deliverance from addictions, deliverance from demons, prophecy and interpretations, and people doing things that in their own strength they would be completely incapable of doing. I have yet to see a single case of God's power moving upon a Mormon congregation in this manner. If you have a testimony, though, feel free to put it up. My own first-hand proof, as well as the findings of my research, have led me to my beliefs. I challenge you, even if you do not agree with what I've written here, do your research. This is a list of information I discovered whilst researching Mormonism. Should you wish to correct or dispute the information given here, I would ask that you put up a full response, as I have done, outlining what information you are providing, and where the proof comes from. __________________ To any who are curious about Mormonism, or are feeling uncertain of their faith, I suggest the following resources: www.carm.org/mormon.htm - the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry. This is a very thorough website. www.exmormon.org - an organisation for ex-mormons or those questioning their faith. www.mrm.org/ - another organisation with research into mormon doctrine. www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/mormon.htm. www.aomin.org/Mormonism.html www.utlm.org/ www.contenderministries.org/mormonism.php www.bible.ca/mormon.htm [Edit] In all fairness to the LDS, I will include their websites as research material. However I respond to the comment that anti-mormon sites won't tell you anything, with pro-mormon sites are no better. Admittedly, both sides are biased. www.lds.org is one of the main sites, as well as www.mormon.org The list goes on. There are also numerous audio-visual and literary works regarding Mormonism. __________________ These are the findings of my own research, which has taken in many different sources. If anybody has a criticism of them, I would respectfully ask that you demonstrate tangible evidence to the contrary. Mormonism is based on the teachings of a man who was a philanderer, occultist and counterfeiter amongst other things. He was excommunicated from churches for herecy and witchcraft. He was arrested and jailed, and during a public protest tried to escape. In the ensuing fight, he murdered two men before he was shot dead by the law. His teachings contradict those of the Bible, and yet he claims his doctrine is more authorative than the Bible. Mormonism teaches (among other things) that: God is an evolved man; Adam was God and Eve was one of his many godess wives; we can become gods. It denies the trinity, which is scripturally sound theology in the Bible. Words like 'Godhead' and verses such as John 1:1 and quotes from Jesus in his gospels verify this. There is no evidence of Jews ever inhabiting the Americas. The American Indians, which Smith claimed to be the lost tribe of Israel, are actually of ancient Asian (specifically eastern / central / northeastern Asia) descent. Proof of this is in a hereditary birthmark known as the Mongoloid spot. This is a blue-grey spot on the tailbone. These Asians have it, the American Indians have it, but Semites (Jews) do not. This is scientific fact. Further to this, none of the foods, crops or animals recorded in the book of Mormon are recognised to have come to the Americas until nearly 1500AD. This is supported by archeological research into the history of the American Indians. Archeological evidence has also shown that the American Indians did not use Iron or glass until after Columbus' visit in 1492AD. All metallurgy before that was limited to South America and Mexico, and this was limited to Gold, Silver and Copper, but not Iron. There is no evidence to support the battle in which supposedly half a million soldiers died. A battle that big would leave lots of bones, weapons and armour. Where is it all? No person, place, nation or name from the book of Mormon has ever been found. No artifact, gold plate or document of any kind has ever been produced to verify the book of Mormon's authenticity. This is strange considering there are literally thousands of scrolls, potsherds and other documents evidencing the ancient origin of the bible. Much of Mormon temple ritual is based on Freemasonry. Why? Christianity has nothing to do with Freemasonry. In fact, Freemasonry teaches a unitheistic worldview (all religions lead to God). This makes Christianity and Freemasonry mutually conflicting, because Jesus says that he is the ONLY way to salvation. The truth is that Smith was a Freemason, who was excommunicated from them for teaching their secrets to his LDS eldership and claiming it to be 'divine inspiration'. It is believed by some historians that the riot outside the jail was orchestrated by the masons in an attempt to kill Smith for giving away their secrets. I seriously doubt that masonic rituals and beliefs were part of God's divine revelation for the world. Mormonism teaches polytheism by declaring that God and Jesus are different beings. This violates the first four commandments of the Torah. It also teaches self-deification by declaring that we can become gods. Not only does this too violate the first four commandments, but it is untrue, and not biblically scriptural in any sense. We will be glorified when we are brought into the Kingdom of Heaven, but we will still be human. That's the long and short of it. That is how God created us. Not even God's original chosen people - the Israelites - dared make these claims. They stoned people who did. Jesus did away with the earthly Aaronic priesthood at his crucifixion. That is why the temple veil was torn in two. God was giving his people direct access to the Holy of Holies through Jesus. The priesthood was no longer needed! As for Melchizedek, since it is believed that he was a Theophany (Pre-incarnation appearance of Christ), then that is not a priesthood of man. It is a priesthood of God that no man has a right to lay claim to. In fact, the word used in Hebrewss 7:24 to describe Christ's ownership of the priesthood literally means "untransferrable", or "without successors". Look it up in the original Greek and you'll see it's true. Therefore, all claims of Mormonism to both the priesthood of Melchizedek and Aaron are invalid! I suggest you read Hebrews, and see what the Apostle Paul has to say about it. The gold plates Smith claims to have found would have weighed an estimated 230 pounds, and yet he claimed to have run 3 miles with them while fighting off three robbers at the same time. Nobody Smith made over 60 prophecies, and 58 of those have never come to pass. He made many prophecies of himself - often time dependent, and every one has been proven false. Furthermore, the book of Mormon is filled with false prophecies. It is claimed that Smith is a descendant of Joseph (the son of Jacob), as well as making other claims about his ancestry. Genealogical searches have proven this to be completely untrue. His ancestry leads back to England. There is more to this issue as well, regarding the 'priesthoods', but I'll leave that for now. Nearly all of Mormonism's founding companions have admitted that there were no gold tablets. There is also no such language as "Reformed Egyptian", which is what Smith claimed the tablets were written in. Besides, if they were written in the Americas by the Jews there, why weren't they in Jewish? Why do the American Indians speak a dialect that is in no way related to Hebrew, and why is their basic religion completely different from Christianity? God gives revelation by speaking to us, either directly or indirectly. If he wanted Smith to translate the plates, why did Smith use spectacles with crystals for lenses? The use of crystals smacks of the occult and spiritualism, both of which Smith is historically renowned for. I should mention that God denounces these things as abominations in his sight, and by the law of Moses were sins punishable by death! Yet God supposedly used an occult practice to bring his Word - was God contradicting himself? I don't think so. Why does the book of Mormon have over 27,000 words taken directly from the KJV of the bible? Smith didn't even bother to change the wording. This is blatant plagiarism. If the book of Mormon was written in about 400AD, as claimed, why is it written in 17th century King James english? Why does it have the word 'adieu' (Jacob 7:27)? Adieu is a French word, and the French language did not come about until around 700AD, yet Mormon authorities date this text as old as 544BC? French didn't exist then, and 'adieu' is not in any other language. Explain that. Finally, and this is something to think about: Smith's writing on the book of Mormon revolved around Jews who had fled to the Americas. It is interesting to note that his sunday school teacher, Rev. Solomon Spaulding, wrote short fantasy stories about Jesus visiting the Americas after his resurrection. Copies of these stories are stored in museums around America, and have been compared to the book of Mormon, with striking resemblances being found. In closing: Is the book of Mormon the inspired Word of God? Mormons say yes, but just remember that you can be sincere - sincerely wrong. The other alternative is that this book is a work of fiction, a con by a renowned con artist. If this is true, then Mormons who are relying on the Mormon Christ to bring them salvation are in for a terrible shock. Just remember this: "I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the Father except through me." These are the words of Jesus, direct from his mouth. If you have been led to worship a false Jesus, then you have no salvation. Have I offended you? Am I attacking you? Many would think so, but consider this. I have not attacked you, nor your faith. What I have spoken against is that which you are taught, and led to believe in. Jesus himself warned that many would come in his name, but teaching a false Christ. Your salvation is at stake here. Are you worshipping the true Jesus? Only He leads the way to eternal life - there is no salvation in a false Jesus. Such a false Jesus comes straight from Satan himself, for he is the deceiver of the nations. I urge you, therefore, not to take this message as an attack, but as a challenge. Go and research Mormonism. Go and research Christianity. Find out for yourself. If you can find hard fact to prove that the book of Mormon is indeed "the inspired word of God" and "the most correct of any book on earth", then feel free to post your proof here. There is ample proof to declare that Christianity is true, so you should have no problems proving Mormonism if it is indeed the truth of God. ------------------------- Added: I would like to address this issue of "believing in Christ" that keeps coming up in arguments. There is only one true Jesus. He is the spirit of Almighty God poured into a (now glorified) human body. He does not have a human nature; neither is he a separate entity from God the Father. They are three, but they are one. This is the theology of the trinity. John 1:1 states irrevocably states this. Now since God himself says that there is no other god, if Jesus is not part of that God, then he can only be a glorified human. If he is, then he will still have the sinful nature of normal man, for it is a curse of our ancestry. That means he could not have lived a sinless life (look at children - they naturally sin with no knowledge: selfishness, tantrums and irrational anger are all sins. It is in our basic fleshly nature. If Christ was a glorified human, or just a human, then he could not have made the sacrifice that he did, nor could he make the claims he did. Only God could have done that. My point is this: Jesus warned with his own mouth that people would come in his name saying "Here is Christ", but they would be lying! Mormon doctrine teaches a God and a Jesus who are different to the God and Jesus of the Bible. If you believe in the Jesus of the Book of Mormon, and not the one of the bible, then you cannot call yourself a Christian, because Christians believe the Jesus of the Bible, and NOTHING else. The Apostles warned against this deception time and time again, and even today we struggle with it in our world. I urge all who seek salvation to look carefully at the Jesus they serve. The Bible is the greatest authorative text regarding God and Jesus - there is nothing above it. If what you believe does not agree 100 percent with the teachings of the Bible, then there is a very sad chance you are worshipping a false Jesus, taught by a false religion. I am not speaking against you personally, just challenging you to make sure you are worhipping the right Jesus, because there is no salvation in any false Jesus. That is why He said: "I am the way, the truth and the life. NOBODY comes to the Father EXCEPT THROUGH ME." (Emphasis mine) Please consider carefully what I have said. I do not think ill of any of you, nor do I wish to make light of your beliefs. I genuinely grieve at the thought that you could be being led astray from salvation. If this can help anybody to find the true Jesus, then I praise God.
  • The wonderful world of debate. The answer is yes, we are Christians. Most of you who are also Christians are part of Catholic Christianity. The next largest group is Protestant Christianity. Catholics claim an unbroken chain linking priesthood to Peter, then to Christ. Protestants broke away from the Catholic Church and formed smaller churches and most claim no authority, or downplay the importance of it. Then there are the Restorationist Christians, the LDS. We believe the church of Christ apostatized, and developed in to the Catholic and Easter Orthodox main churches being that these to denominations had bishops that were very influential. People sat around and decided what to believed, and lo and behold, you have the confusion we have today. Anyway, we believe God revealed through his prophet the true order of things because all of Christendom fell away. We are not traditional Christians of course. The analogy about the Albertson family was ludicrous. Really, any denominations can be ridiculed that way. Just because you are Baptist does not make you a Christian. It is like saying just because you know Michael you are a Jackson. That is shallow thought in action. Compare the lives of Mormons with any sect of Christianity and you will find that we follow as well, or better than that of any sect. Christ is the reason for the entire restoration. I have not yet met a protestant that can tell me what they really believe. I keep hearing creeds, but that means nothing to me. It is all the mind of man. God knows who his true followers are. They can be found in every walk of life and every faith. He also knows whom he has authorized to act on his behalf. That, my associates, rests only with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We are followers of Jesus Christ, and because of such I cannot express the negativity that comes naturally from being told what I am by uninformed people. Luckily, I can repent of my negative thoughts. I am obligated to forgive you for ignorance and downright lying. In addition, as I said in another post, if all who say we LDS are not Christians persist, what is you basis? Did you think of it yourself or did you ask the God you claim to serve. I know the Jesus that I worship commands me not to bare false witness. Ask God if we Mormons follow His Son Jesus Christ and wait for him to answer you. He will. When it all comes together, asking God settles every question. Moreover, even if you say I worship a different Jesus, which I am beginning to believe, we still call him Christ and are still Christians. Sometimes I wish I could descend to name-calling and blanket statements alone and have that be enough to rebut. But alas, it is not my lot. I am with the saints and am put in the refiner’s fire of defender of the truth. I do not wish to offend. The question was asked and I answered it. Surrender your will to Christ and he will lead you to His Father is what Mormons believe. Even if you do not agree with it, we are Christians, by our fruit are we known. If I were to qualify Christianity, maybe the people who post here would be consider other than that by their fruit. You do not have to be a member of the Church to be a Christian. You must live the life. Church is where ordinances are performed to aid us in faith. Christianity is the life you live because of that faith. All good Christians will have appropriate works to follow. Show me you faith by your words, I will show you my faith by my life (works) Faith without works is dead being alone—paraphrasing James.
  • It is amusing to watch the argument on this issue. The simple answer is that yes, Mormons are Christians, but not the same kind of Christians as, say, Baptists or Eastern Orthodox. But then, Baptists aren't the same kind of Christians as Eastern Orthodox or Presbyterians. Each of the hundreds of separate sects of the Baptist version of Christianity has separate doctrines and practices, much less the thousands of different Christian denominations worldwide. If Tritnitarianism is necessary for a church to be "true" Christianity, then not one of the original Apostles was a "true" Christian, as this is a 4th Century doctrine. This points up the fact that the definition of Christianity can always be tightened up to exclude anyone except the one setting the definition. For that matter, the "-ian" suffix means "coming from," and none of the Protestant sects comes from Christ -- all are breakaways from the Catholic ("universal") church, which itself was formed by bringing together many separate churches about 1900 years ago. Mormons believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints truly "comes from" Christ as a restoration of original doctrine and authority, and is the only such church in the world (and if the Joseph Smith story is true, Mormons are correct in this). They also believe that other churches which follow the New Testament are also Christian to one extent or another, just not as accurate in their beliefs. In fact, with the doctrines which have been added into Christianity -- including Trinitarianism, or Biblical "perfection" -- it can be argued successfully that mainstream Christianity is not truly Christian. The fact is that every Christian church considers itself "more" Christian than all of the thousands of other Christian faiths. The more rabid of their followers will go out of the way to attack other churches, usually from a fear of being wrong or a knowledge that they don't live as Christlike a life as the members of the "cult" that they are attacking. Soon enough, Christ will come back and tell us HIMSELF who is and is not a Christian. Until then, it's just personal opinion.
  • A link was posted to a web site that decries the Christianity of Latter-day Saints. I have read the lists there and checked out the links. It has a number of true statements and many distorted and false statements. I consider myself a Christian, so Mormons are considered so. The question was not Does everyone consider Mormons Christians? Some do, some do not. Salvation is through the living Christ. In addition, the statements about being a true Christian are false regarding what Christians believe. Not all Christians believe that God is 3 in one. I define a Christian as someone who follows the teachings of Christ, AND recognize him as the Son of God and the Author of salvation for mankind. Salvation from what, Death!--which is a gift to all, believer or non-believer. And Salvation from sin, which one must accept Christ through baptism as a witness of submission to God, and keeping the commandments as evidence of that submission to God. The manner and mode of initiation may be different for each denomination, but most Christians will not disagree with what I type about being a true Christian. Mormons fall into that category. What our dogma may be or may not be is secondary. The main point is we seek salvation through Christ. Mormons believe all people will be saved not matter the crime, but all people will not be redeem from sin. Death is the victor that Christ conquered for all as a gift as I mentioned before. Sin is the conditional gift from God. We must accept and live his laws if we are to be forgiven. The Bible is replete with commands to love and serve. If we do not love and serve, then we are not His, or Christ. We must do his works if we are His because that is What Jesus Christ commissions us to do in His name. Yes, Mormons are Christians. Protestants are not the ones who determine who we serve, it is we. No one can prove by the way LDS live that we are not Christ’s; the majority of the LDS are faithful followers of Christ. Some do not attend church, but still do good works. Christ's people are healers of the world, and that is what we do. We lift the fallen, feed the hungry, and pray for the persecuted. Other people of other faiths do the same also, and I attribute their works to the glory of God--even if they do not believe in HIM.
  • I have heard people say often that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) is not a Christian religion because we put Joseph Smith above Christ... or that Joseph Smith is the head of our church. That however is not the case, Joseph Smith himself said he is not Christ, and that he made no claim to be. Mormons however believe Christ to be the literal head of their church, He directs the Prophet who in turn Directs the 12 apostles, who then direct the Quorum of the 70 and so on down to the Bishop who tells the members. The Bishop never claims to be the head of the church and neither does the Prophet they like all other knowledgeable members of the LDS church acknowledge Jesus Christ as the head of the church. It is not Joseph's church it is Jesus Christ's church or such is the belief of its members.
  • "I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian churches), for they were all wrong…their creeds were an abomination in [God’s] sight; that those professors were all corrupt" (Joseph Smith—History 1:19). For the purpose of answering this question the following is based on the Christian belief and does not necessarily reflect my own opinion. You cannot legitimately claim to be Christians when you refuse to accept what the Bible teaches and what a true Christian believes. Matt. 24:24, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong ... all their creeds were an admonition in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19). Mormons have preferred to be called "saints"; however, in the recent years the LDS church has spent millions in an intense "PR" campaign aimed at moving the church into the mainstream of Christianity. The political and economic benefits of Mormons being included in the mainstream of Christianity are obvious. Further, for Mormons to be accepted as traditional Christians would greatly aid in proselytizing the members of Christian denominations into the LDS church. This is why the LDS church is trying so hard to present itself as Christian and is trying to overcome the stigma of being a cult. The answer to the question, "Are Mormons Christians," is simple. They are not Christians for several reasons, and their unbiblical doctrines show them to be a "Christian" cult. The name Christian was first used, as Acts 11:26 records, to identify the disciples of Jesus Christ. The word "Christian" is the Greek word "christianos," and it means an adherent of Jesus Christ. It literally means "Christ ones" (Acts 11:26, 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16). The correct definition of the word is one who is a follower of the Jesus Christ of the Bible. For almost two thousand years it has never had a reference to anyone other that the historical Jesus Christ of the New Testament. The god of the Mormons is not the God of the Bible. To the Mormons, Jesus is the firstborn son of an exalted "man" who became the god of this world. The man-god of Mormonism was made the god of this world because of his good works on another planet somewhere out in the universe. He "earned" godhood, and was thus appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. The Mormon god of this world was a man, like all men, who became a god. This is what the celestial marriage and the temple vows are all about. LDS men, by doing their temple work, are striving for exaltation by which they, too, shall one day become gods. Their wives will be the mother goddesses of "their" world and with their husband will produce the population of their world. This is the Mormon doctrine of "eternal progression." Note the following quote from the Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123, made by the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde: "Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is." Lorenzo Snow, late President of the Mormon church, made this statement in the second verse of his famous poem entitled, "Man's Destiny": "As Abra'm, Isaac, Jacob, too, babes, then men--to gods they grew. As man now is, our God once was; As now God is, so man may be,-- Which doth unfold man's destiny. . ." Mormons teach that Jesus Christ suffered for sin in the Garden of Gethsemane when He sweat "as it were" great drops of blood. Mormons totally avoid the Biblical teaching of Christ's atonement for sin which was accomplished on the Cross. Only those who believe in the real Biblical God and Jesus Christ have the right to use the name "Christian." The Mormon prophets historically have openly ridiculed those who believe in the God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit that the Bible reveals. "Fraud and falsehood only dread examination" Samuel Johnson.
  • Dictionary Definition of a Christian : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ Mormons meet this qualification. They profess to believe the teachings of Jesus Christ. Whether the LDS interpretation of the teachings of Jesus is correct or incorrect is irrelevant. The definition of a Christian is very simple and the members of the LDS church meet that definition.
  • Included as food for thought... I have rarely seen such a collection of prejudices paraded in front of the world at large, masquerading as answers and comments, as I have seen here in response to this question. It sounds like nothing more than one sad bunch of bigots slanging off another. Are Mormons Christian? Yes, if they believe themselves to be. You may not agree with them, you may not believe it suits your personal world view, you may drag one quote after another to 'prove' this or that position, and they might even be wrong in the greater scheme of things (who's to say - not me), but it is their faith... not yours. I am not aware of any official rating service that determines who rightly belongs to the Christian faith and who does not... "No, sorry, Mormons only get a 4 on the Jesusometer and don't pass the Christian test. You'll have to revise your teachings and come back next week for a retest."
  • NO, they will tell you they are but they most certainly are not! My husband came out of the mormon cult. They are decieved into believing a fantasy that is not truth. Joseph Smith was the cult leader and is now burning in hell. Do not believe anything the mormons will tell you. Their bible is not the bible God inspired.Man inspired it and God gave us a warning not to add to His Word. Their religion is based on a works salvation and not grace. It is lustful and inspired by a demon.I pray for all those who are in this terrible cult to have the eyes of their understanding opened because Jesus wants to save you!- I'm sorry if you do not like what I wrote I did not write it to be mean but truthful> I love people and I want them to be sure of salvation because hell is real. God himself warns us in His Word about false teachers and hates every false way. Gos is a God of love but do not forget He is a God of Wrath too! People have it wrong! Fruit of the spirit has nothing to do with this. Love without truth is not love."He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. (John 12:40) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. (II Peter 2:1) By the way, I am a born again child of God. I accepted Christ into my heart and His Spirit beareth winess that I am indeed a child Of God. "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"
  • Yes and No but that is asked about all churches and all churches get questioned for thier beliefs, because out there in the world religion is very contraversal, and so im not saying anobody is worng just that it all comes down to what we think and how we want to live as a christian or whatever......Cos now and then you should see what all people who have a religion are like cos you get those who say"I love going to church, don't fall into temptation" and later on you hear them gosping and toxicated on saturday nights..... but everyone should open their eyes, and see what they really want out of their churches, cos mormon is a good church so is any other church, and i don't have anything against mormons cos i have family in that church and i was brought up in this church for most of my life, but it depends how much you want to make of that moment or opportunutiy.
  • Wow i cant believe there are still paranoid people out there like you man. I have been a member of the church now for15 years and i havent seen any sacrifices yet or child molesters(that catholic churches seem to be breeding left and right) and they take care of their own welfare services and the like in the name of christ and yet you still deny. I know after every sacrement we say in the name of jesus christ amen not joseph smith so get your facts straight brother...oh and have a nice day:)
  • What Mormons Believe. 1. God has godess wives "this doctrine that there is a mother in heaven was affirmed in all plainness by the first presidency of the church(Bruce R. McConkie,Apostle,Mormon Doctine,p.516) 2. Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers.(Milton R.Hunter,First Council of Seventy,The Gospel Through the Ages,p.15). 3.There are many Gods "a council of Gods"(Joseph Smith,Founder and First Prophet,History of the Church,vol.6,pp.308,474). 4.Jesus was married.(Orson Hyde,Apostle,Journal of Discourses,vol.2,p.82). 5.Jesus is a elder brother who progressed to become God.(The Gospel Through the ages, p.51) 6.One of Adam's plural wives. When Adam came into the Garden of Eden, he "brought Eve, one of his wives with him" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 1:50). 7.Mary had sexual relationship to conceive Jesus Christ"Journal of Discourses,v.8,p.115" 8.The Book of Mormon teaches that the disobedience of Adam and Eve in eating the forbidden fruit was necessary so that they could have children and bring joy to mankind (2 Nephi 2:23-25) 9."I have more to boast of then ever any man had.I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of adem,A large majority of the whole have stood beside me.Neither Paul,John,peter nor Jesus ever did it.I boast that no man ever did such a work as I.The Followers of Jesus ran away from Him;but the latter-day saints never ran away from me yet."-Joseph smith(Joseph smith,History of the Church,vol.6,pp.408-09) 10.the Book of Mormon says Jesus was born in JERUSALEM (Alma 7:10). 11.The Book of Mormon was written by God through Joseph Smith 12.Man may become God.(Joseph Smith,History of the Church,vol.6,p.306) 13.Helaman 14:20-22 says 3 days of darkness after crucifixion. 14.Joseph Smith was a prophet WHAT THE WORD OF GOD TEACHES THROUGH THE HOLY BIBLE: 1.There is absolutely no mention of any wives of God.There will be no marrying in heaven.(Matthew 22:29-30) 2.The real Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.He is God's son(John 1:1-14).Satan was a created angel-not a son of God.(Isaiah 14:12).Jesus created all things,and in Him the fullness of God dwells! (Colossians 1:15-20;Philippians 2:5-11;Hebrews 1:1-13). 3.There was,is,and always will be only one God(Isaiah 43:10-11;44:6-8;45:5-6,18-22;Deuteronomy 6:4;32:39;James 2:19). 4.Jesus and His disciples were guests at Cana(John 2:2). Read John 2:1-12.This Mormon doctrine is generally not taught openly today.Marriage in a Mormon temple(called celestial marriage) is mandatory to progress to becoming a god in Mormonism.To fit the theology of Mormonism,the Mormon "Jesus" has to be married-or He would only be a ministering servant of those in Mormonism's heaven who have "celestial marriage." 5.Jesus has always been God.(John 1:1-14,John 17:5,Hebrews 1:8) 6.Eve is the only wife of Adam, made by God as a "help meet for him" (Genesis 2:18). 7.Jesus was begotten by the Holy Ghost.Mary was indeed a virgin(Matthew 1:18-23;Luke 1:35). 8.In contrast, the Bible specifically declares that Adams transgression was a sinful act of rebellion that unleashed the power of sin and death in the human heart and throughout Gods perfect world (Genesis 3:16-19; Romans 5:12; 8:20-21). There is no Biblical support for the view that Adam and Eve could only fulfill the command to "be fruitful and multiply" (Genesis 1:28) by disobeying Gods command regarding the forbidden fruit (Genesis 2:17). The Book of Mormon teaching that these divine commands are contradictory, and that God expected Adam and Eve to figure out that in reality He wanted them to break the latter command ("of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it") in order to keep the former ("be fruitful and multiply"), has no basis in logic or the Biblical text, and attributes equivocation to God. 9.No prophet of God ever made a statment like Joseph Smith's.King Neduchadnezzar had a similer pride to Joseph Smith's.He was driven out by God to live with the animals.(see Daniel 4:28-33) 10.The Bible says that Jesus was born in BETHLEHEM (Matt. 2:1; Luke 2:1-7) 11."But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other then the one we preached to you,let him be eternally condemned!"(Galatians 1:8) 12.The great lie of Satan from the beginning was that man may become a god(Genesis 3:1-5;Isaiah 14:12-15;Ezekiel 28:1-10). 13.the Bible says in Luke 23:44 that 3 hours of darkness after crucifixion not 3 days. 14.Hebrews 1:1-2 and Luke 16:16 tell us that although we used to have prophets in the Old Testament, we no longer need them because we have Jesus Christ. Deuteronomy 18:20-22 tell us the test of a prophet is if any man speaks for God and it doesn't happen, he is not a prophet of God. If we apply this test to Joseph Smith we find there were many prophesies that never came true. Joseph said that God had commanded him to tell the people He would return in 56 years (History of the Church, 2:182). Joseph Smith said this in 1835, so adding 56 to 1835 brings us to 1891. Christ did not return in 1891, because He said that when He returns, every eye will see Him. (Rev 1:7) In another revelation given by Smith, he says in Doctrine & Covenants, Section 84:1-6 that a temple would be built within a generation in the western boundaries of Missouri. A generation to the Christian world is generally recognized as 40 years. However, let's use the Mormon definition of a generation as 110 years. This was recorded in 1832, so 166 years have passed and there is still no temple in the western boundaries of Missouri and there's certainly nobody still alive from that generation. The book of mormon says in its introduction page that its "comparable to the Bible".But it is not.God Bless
  • Mormons believe in a different Christ then christians. In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages. (Church News, week ending June 20, 1998, page 7) Christians should ask, "Which Christ?" The Bible warns of false teachers who promote "another Jesus whom we have not preached" (2 Corinthians 11:4).
    • Gone!
      Well stated.
  • Unfortunately, most governments define Mormonism as a cult. Personally, I consider them Christians because they worship Christ. [Response to Bob Blaylock] For one example, the French government. And I believe the Canadian does as well.
  • Yes, it is. The definition of a Christian is the belief in Jesus Christ, and Mormons do believe in Christ. In fact the true name of the church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
  • 35ish years ago my parents did the tour of the Mormon temple in Salt Lake City and the whole tour was about how Mormons are NOT Christians they're totally different. 10ish years ago they kept talking about how we're the same and they actually are Christians. But my answer is no. Yes, they fall under the umbrella of Christianity as a whole since they believe in a person named Jesus Christ but their beliefs are so different than the rest of Christianity that I think they're in a group of their own. I feel the same way about Jehovas Witnesses and to a lesser degree Catholics.
  • i honestly dont think that mormons are Christians, but that is my opinion.
  • Well the Cambridge dictionary defines 'Christian' as someone who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. As far as I'm aware Mormons do believe and follow the teachings of Jesus so that would indicate that, under definition, they are Christians. I'm know there are quite drastic differences in beliefs between Mormonism and other Christian denominations and one can claim the huge deviations seperate them from each other but I think Christianity encompasses Mormonism because I feel Christianity covers a rather broad range of beliefs which are only linked together by belief in God, Jesus and the Bible.
  • They believe in Jesus CHRIST so this makes them one of the Christian denominational churches, although very different from the Christian Churches which are part of Catholicism or Protestantism
  • It seems rather clear that the question of whether or not mormons are christians really depends on what you would like to call a christian. But it isnt only that, you could take it even deeper and deeper. One may say if someone believes in Christ they are christians. But what does it mean to "Believe in Christ"? Does that mean admit that a person of that name exsisted? Does it mean to claim him as your "Saviour"? Does it mean to follow his teachings as found in the scriptures? Does it mean to belong to the church that he founded while on the earth? Thats quite a bit of questions. And if you live in America you can take a look around you and see literally (well, I think is this a little statement although I must admit I am entirely guessing) hundreds of christian denominations. What does that even mean? How can there be hundreds of different religions that all fall under the same religion? Well, obviously they have to agree on SOMETHING. And I would submit that something is Jesus Christ. And if you are asking if mormons believe in Jesus Christ (whatever your definition of Jesus Christ is) then I would say that "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" is definetly a christian church. The mormon "Believe the Bible to be the word of God..." A quote taken from a list of some of their beliefs (not a list of ALL beliefs, but some). Another quote "We belive in God the eternal Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." Sounds Christian to me. Another quote "We belive in the same organization that existed in the primative church, namely apostales, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth." So, if we compare this to Ephisians 3 (maybe?) we can see that the church Paul was talking about closely resembles that of the Mormons Church. As far as I can tell, Mormons are the only church that belive in a need for temples such as found in the Old Testament. And I am pretty sure that if you ask a Mormon he/she will tell you that they are indeed Christians. And if you wish to find a good source of information, I would not suggest the internet. I am sure you can find hundreds upon hundreds of sites that claim PROOF that mormons are christians, and that mormons arent christians. In my overly wordy opinion I would say this: Mormons are christians. I would say that Mormons can be some of the most Christ-Like People at times. Not all mormons are good people, not all non-mormons are bad people. Mormons are not MAIN stream christians. But they believe (and not only believe but LIVE) christian values. I close with the Last of their thirteen statements of belief -- or Articles of Faith as they call them -- "We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul- We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things." And whether or not I am a christian, or a mormon, or a whatever, I will not say. I hope this helps.
  • Mormons ideas on Christianity, Jesus & such are different than what we call Biblical Christianity... It is just a simple fact... They will tell you there are Christian but thier docterine will be different...
  • To put it plainly, Mormon's follow Joseph Smith's version on Jesus, but not the Christ that lived in Israel. The Book of Mormon states that it is more accurate than any other book, including the bible and yet the stories in the Book of Mormon lack any foundation. There is nothing real about the Book of Mormon. It's just one man's idea of how things ought to be. Compare that to the bible and other historical records of Jesus. They are NOT the same whatsoever. So the answer is NO, they are not Christians. They are more accurately Joseph Smithians. This is a clear and concise answer. Do not mark me down just because you feel your religion is under attack.
  • Mormons are a spinoff of Christianity, but their basic beliefs have moved away from traditional Christianity. They believe in a further revelation in the Americas, one which teaches quite a different nature for God and Jesus.
  • Yes. Mormon is just a nickname. The real title of the church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They believe in Jesus in a very powerful way. They not just believe in Jesus, they live LIKE Jesus. They are DEFINATELY Christians. They do believe in God and respect him.
  • Yes. Mormon is just a nickname. The real title of the church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They believe in Jesus in a very powerful way. They not just believe in Jesus, they live LIKE Jesus. They are DEFINATELY Christians. They do believe in God and respect him.
  • Mormons say: We declare the divinity of Jesus Christ. We look to Him as the only source of our salvation. We strive to live His teachings, and we look forward to the time when He shall come again on this earth to rule and reign as King of kings and Lord of lords.
  • As a Mormon the answer is no. I have answered a similar quesiton earlier before. We do believe in God first of all. The Mormons is not a nickname that was derived from Christians. I do agree with the others however; we did move the traditions into new sets of standards, and new ways of customs, rules, and expectations as well. You may also want to talk to Bob or Glenn Blaylock about this. They can help you as well.
  • The bases of the Christian faith is those who believe that Jesus is the Messiah, there is no middle ground. And if I am not mistaken, mormons do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, nor that he died to save us, there for they would be based more along the lines of a cult. In fact mormonism is not that different from scientology in many cases. Basically that you will be considered a "little god" yourself if you do good works. Oh and incidentally they also believe in reincarnation, not salvation. You can find these things out for yourself too.
  • Joseph Smith, the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints taught, “We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.345; also cited in Gospel Principles, p.305). In contrast to this, Psalm 90:2 states, “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you have formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, you are God.”
  • According to Joseph Smith, "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret, if the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible,—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345. Also cited in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p.129). The Doctrines of Covenants, considered to be scripture by Latter-day Saints, teaches, “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's” (130:22).
  • Jesus taught that God the Father was not a man at all. In fact, John 4:24 records Jesus saying, “God is spirit, and they that worship Him, must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”
  • Joseph Smith said, “I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the elders for fifteen years” (Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.35). Brigham Young, the second president of the LDS Church, once stated, “How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds, and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through. That course has been from all eternity, and it is and will be to all eternity. You cannot comprehend this; but when you can, it will be to you a matter of great consolation” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:334, October 8, 1859). However, Isaiah 44:6,8 tells us that the God of the Bible knows of no other Gods. “I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God…Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any.”
  • Gordon B. Hinckley, Mormonism’s 15th President, once noted in a conference message, “Logic and reason would certainly suggest that if we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. That doctrine rests well with me” (“Daughters of God,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 1991, p.100. This is also cited in The Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley, p.257). Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote, “Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit children of an Eternal Father is the usually unspoken truth that they are also the offspring of an Eternal Mother. An exalted and glorified Man of Holiness (Moses 6:57) could not be a Father unless a Woman of like glory, perfection, and holiness was associated with him as a Mother. The begetting of children makes a man a father and a woman a mother whether we are dealing with man in his mortal or immortal state” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516). Just as there is nothing in Mormonism’s unique scripture that mentions God being married to a “heavenly mother,” there is nothing to imply such a teaching in the Bible either.
  • 12th Mormon President Spencer W. Kimball wrote, “Long before you were born a program was developed by your creators ... The principal personalities in this great drama were a Father Elohim, perfect in wisdom, judgment, and person, and two sons, Lucifer and Jehovah.” (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, pp. 32-33). Since The New Testament claims that it was through Jesus all things were created (John 1:3; Colossian 1:16, 17), it is difficult to assume such a familial relationship. Lucifer is described as an angel and angels, according to Psalm 148:1-5, are created beings, not pro-created beings in a sexual sense.
  • In a pamphlet published by the LDS Church First Presidency, it says: “Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring; that is to say, Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh, and which body died on the cross and was afterward taken up by the process of resurrection, and is now the immortalized tabernacle of the eternal spirit of our Lord and Savior” ("The Father and The Son; A Doctrinal Exposition by The First Presidency and The Twelve," June 30, 1916. Reprinted in Articles of Faith, p. 421). Mormon Apostle Bruce McConkie taught that God stepped down from His throne to “join with one who is finite and mortal in bringing forth, ‘after the manner of the flesh,’ the Mortal Messiah” (Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah: From Bethlehem to Calvary, 1:315). The Bible describes the incarnation of Christ as a miracle known as the Virgin Birth. Mary, the mother of Jesus, became pregnant without the aid of man, mortal or otherwise (Luke 2:35).
  • The Book of Mormon teaches in 2 Nephi 25:23, “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” President Spencer W. Kimball said, “One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation” (12th Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p.206; also cited in The Book of Mormon Student Manual, religion 121 and 122, 1996, p.36). Though Christians are saved “unto good works” (Ephesians 2:10), the good works of a Christians do not justify (or make right) the believer before God. The apostle Paul made this very clear when he wrote, “For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9).
  • Writing for the Mormon magazine Ensign, BYU professor Clyde J. Williams said, “The perfect relationship between the atoning grace of Christ and the obedient efforts of mankind is powerfully stated by Nephi: ‘We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). Furthermore, we are invited to ‘come unto Christ, and be perfected in him.’ When we deny ourselves ‘of all ungodliness,’ then and only ‘then is his grace sufficient’ for us (Moroni 10:32)” (“Plain and Precious Truths Restored,” Ensign, October 2006, p.53). Apostle Bruce McConkie wrote, “And unless men have the agency to choose to do good and work righteousness—and, in fact, do so—they cannot be saved. There is no other way” (The Mortal Messiah 1:406). However, in his pastoral epistle to Titus, the apostle Paul wrote that a believer’s salvation was “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit.” He went on to write that this great kindness was “shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life” (Titus 3:5-7).
  • According to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, “Logically and naturally, the ultimate desire of a loving Supreme Being is to help his children enjoy all that he enjoys. For Latter-day Saints, the term ‘godhood’ denotes the attainment of such a state—one of having all divine attributes and doing as God does and being as God is” (2:553). Brigham Young declared, “The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like Himself; when we have been proved in our present capacity, and been faithful with all things He puts into our possession. We are created, we are born for the express purpose of growing up from the low estate of manhood, to become Gods like unto our Father in heaven. That is the truth about it, just as it is” (Brigham Young, August 8, 1852, Journal of Discourses 3:93). Historically, such a notion has been considered blasphemous by Christians. Never have Christians taught that mankind has the capacity to become ontologically like God. As God Himself said through the prophet Isaiah, “Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me” (Isaiah 43:10).
  • “There is no greater prophet in any dispensation than Joseph Smith… Joseph Smith was a prophet, and all the calumny and aspirations to the contrary cannot controvert that fact. Anyone who has concern for the welfare of his eternal soul should give attention to this message. Every man who has lived since the days of Joseph Smith is subject to accepting him as a prophet of God in order to enter into our Heavenly father’s presence” (A. Theodore Tuttle, “Joseph Smith re-established fullness of true gospel, Church,” Church News, March 17, 2001, p.14). This concurs with what Brigham Young said in 1859: “From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are -- I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent” (Brigham Young, October 9, 1859, Journal of Discourses 7:289). The Bible declares that Jesus is the Christian’s living prophet and it is Jesus whom Christians must listen to and obey (Deuteronomy 18:15; John 5:46; 6:44; 7:40; Acts 3:22, 23; 7:37; Hebrews 1:1-2). Judgment has been given to Jesus alone by authority of the Father. “For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son” (John 5:22).
  • According to the LDS Church manual Gospel Principles, “One by one, the Apostles were killed. Because of the persecution, surviving Apostles could not meet to choose and ordain men to replace those who were dead. Eventually, local priesthood leaders were the only ones who had authority to direct the scattered branches of the Church. The perfect organization of the Church no longer existed, and confusion resulted. More and more error crept into Church doctrine, and soon the destruction was complete. The period of time when the true Church no longer existed on earth is called the Great Apostasy” (Gospel Principles, p.105, emphasis theirs). But Jesus promised to be with His Church unto the “end of the world (or age)” (Matthew 28:20).
  • Doctrine and Covenants 7:1-3 states, “AND the Lord said unto me: John, my beloved, what desirest thou? For if you shall ask what you will, it shall be granted unto you. And I said unto him: Lord, give unto me power over death, that I may live and bring souls unto thee. And the Lord said unto me: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, because thou desirest this thou shalt tarry until I come in my glory, and shalt prophesy before nations, kindreds, tongues and people” BYU Professor Robert Millet noted that not only was the Apostle John still alive, but that “Three “Nephites” mentioned in the Book of Mormon were also living today in a translated state. “We know from the Book of Mormon (see 3 Nephi 28:6) and from modern revelation (see D&C 7) that John was translated-changed to a terrestrial state so as to no longer be subject to the effects of the Fall, including physical suffering, bodily decay, and death. Like the three Nephites, he is still ministering among the peoples of the earth and will do so until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, at which time he and they will be changed from mortality to immortality (see 3 Nephi 28:8, 27-30)” (Selected Writings of Robert L. Millet: Gospel Scholars Series, p.85). Jesus never made such a promise. Clearly such a conclusion is based on a misunderstanding that the Gospel of John corrects in John 21:22, 23
  • Joseph Smith said “that America in ancient times has been inhabited by two distinct races of people. The first were called Jaredites and came directly from the tower of Babel. The second race came directly from the city of Jerusalem, about six hundred years before Christ. They were principally Israelites, of the descendants of Joseph. The Jaredites were destroyed about the time that the Israelites came from Jerusalem, who succeeded them in the inheritance of the country. The principal nation of the second race fell in battle towards the close of the fourth century. The remnant are the Indians that now inhabit this country” (Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons 3:707). Harold B. Lee, Mormonism’s 11th president, stated, “The Indians on the American continent are descendants of the tribes of Ephraim, Judah, and Manasseh, we are told by the Book of Mormon. (Omni 15-19; I Nephi 5:14-16.) Their dark skin was a curse put upon them because of their transgression, which in a day to come in their descendants will be lifted and they will become white and delightsome as they accept the Gospel and turn to the Lord” (Decisions for Successful Living, pp.166-167.) Genetic evidence denies such a connection. Modern data concludes that the American Indians are not of Hebrew ancestry but are instead of Asian descent.
  • Mormon Apostle John A. Widtsoe wrote, “Latter-day Saints know, through modern revelation, that the Garden of Eden was on the North American continent and that Adam and Eve began their conquest of the earth in the upper part of what is now the state of Missouri. It seems very probable that the children of our first earthly parents moved down along the fertile, pleasant lands of the Mississippi valley. The great floods that have often occurred there make the description in Genesis seem very reasonable indeed. And if the historian saw the flood there, it is not unlikely that the waters covered the highest points or peaks, for there the mountains are but hills” (Evidences and Reconciliations, p.127). Milton R. Hunter, a Mormon Seventy, stated, “From the foregoing evidence, it is certain that the Garden of Eden was located in America, in what today is known as the state of Missouri and probably the adjacent region” (Pearl of Great Price Commentary, p.109). The above represents just a small amount of the many contrasting beliefs between Mormonism and biblical Christianity. Our prayer is that you will take the time to carefully study the truth-claims of the Mormon Church and compare them to what the Bible already declares. In doing so you will be better prepared to discern what Mormonism is all about
  • I don't believe so, but I'm not the one to judge. I have posted some of the LDS beliefs, and some may have never heard of them but it is what their church teached in the past or teaches now....I guess it would be up to the indiviual if they concider themselves a christian but I don't believe LDS members are. Christians don't believe in the BOM or the D&C or Pearl of Great Price. Christians who don't believe in Mormonism are anti-mormon, so are Mormons that don't beleive in Christian believes anti-Christian?
  • Are Mormons Christian? See below YES! As a Latter-day Saint, I have been taught, and have personally chosen, to accept Christ as my Savior. I am taught to follow Him and feast on His word. I have no qualms in insisting that real Mormons are Christians. We worship Christ and covenant to follow Him. We are baptized in His name to follow Him, we partake of the sacrament (the holy communion) weekly to remember the sacrifice of His blood and to remember His victory over death, we pray to the Father in His name, and we strive to obey Him, knowing that it is only through His merits and grace that we are saved. He is constantly held up in our meetings as our Savior, our Redeemer, our Lord, and the author of our faith and our salvation. We believe that He stands at the head of His living Church, leading it as in days of old through revelation to His prophets and apostles. The Christ we worship is the living Christ, the Son of God, foretold in the Old Testament, revealed in the New Testament, and affirmed in The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ. For a more in-depth perspective, consider the comments of President Gordon B. Hinckley at the April 2000 General Conference, entitled "My Testimony." Can any sincere person read those powerful words and wonder if that man is not a Christian, or if this Church is not all about following the living Christ, our Savior and Redeemer? See also the article, "Are Mormons Christians?" at the official LDS site, and "Latter-day Saint Christianity: Ten Basic Issues" - an excellent online booklet that deals with some common questions and controversies about Latter-day Saint beliefs. How can you be Christian? Don't you believe that your are saved by works? Don't you deny the basic truth of the Trinity? We are Christian because we look to Christ for salvation and worship Him and the Father. We are not saved by our works, but through the grace of Christ (as explained more fully below). We believe in God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost as the members of the Godhead, being one in purpose, heart, and intent. I discuss these issues more fully below, noting that we do differ from many churches in our theology. Although I may disagree with the theology of some other Christians, that gives me no right to say that they are not Christians because they don't see things the way I do. If someone looks to Christ for salvation and seeks to follow Him, in my mind, that's enough to qualify as being a Christian, regardless of other theological differences. Now let's examine the two primary charges. We are said to be unchristian because 1) we allegedly think we must keep the commandments to be saved and 2) we do not accept the standard doctrine of the Trinity. These issues are treated in more length in my discussion on grace, works, and salvation), but here's my quick response to both charges: 1) Commandment keeping? In Matthew 19:16-22, somebody asked Christ directly what he needed to do to have eternal life. Christ answered: "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." We believe Christ said this for a reason - and there are dozens of similar statements in the Bible (scripture-lovers may wish to study a sampling of such statements). This does not mean that we are saved by works, but that we must follow Christ to receive His grace. We will be saved from physical death - thanks to the resurrection of Christ - by grace, regardless of what we do (1 Cor. 15:20-22). We also can be saved from spiritual death through the grace of Christ, thanks to His infinite atoning sacrifice. (Spiritual death = being cast out of God's presence because of sin, losing "eternal life" - the heavenly immortal life that is possible for those living in the presence of God.) But to receive that grace and forgiveness, we must repent of our sins (Matt. 4:17, Mark 6:12; Acts 2:37,38; Acts 17:30; Heb. 6:1-3), have faith in Him, follow Him and strive to keep His commandments (Matt. 7:21, Rom. 2:4-11), "relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save" (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 31:19). I know that many good Christians will disagree with my interpretation of scripture, but I hope they will still accept my sincere declaration that Latter-day Saints are Christians and are taught to have faith in Christ and to look to Him and His grace for salvation. (A more detailed discussion is given in my article on faith, grace, works, and salvation.) 2) The Trinity? According to my reading of history, the doctrine of the Trinity as taught today (including the concept of an immaterial Godhead, one in substance, bodiless) was formulated in councils of men amid hot debate many years after Christ and the apostles. The doctrine of the Trinity is defined in a variety of creeds and statements such as the Nicene Creed, the Athanasian Creed, and, as an example of a more recent formulation from 1646, the Westminster Confession of Faith. In many of the creeds and related statements of belief, it is taught that there is one God manifest in three persons, all of one substance, without body, parts, or passions. This differs from the LDS view, as we shall see. Many feel it is exactly what the Bible teaches, but other sincere Christians interpret the text differently. Latter-day Saints believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, and believe that they are one in purpose and one in heart, but not one in substance. Recall the great prayer of Christ in John 17. There (in verse 21), Christ prayed that His followers "all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me; that they also may be one in us." In verse 22, He again prayed "that they may be one, even as we are one." In my view, this kind of oneness is a unity of purpose, intent, and heart, not a blending of substance into one being. When Christ prayed (many times) to His Father in Heaven, we believe that He was doing exactly that - communicating with His Father. Likewise, In Acts 7:55,56, before being killed by hateful critics, Stephen looked up towards heaven "and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God." He saw two Beings. Further, in the creation story in Genesis 1, God (Elohim, a plural noun) says in verse 26: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." We feel inclined to take that literally. (Note that the same wording is used to describe the physical similarity between Adam and one of his sons in Genesis 5:1-3; see also Heb. 1:3 and James 3:9.) Likewise, I see a similar concept in James 3:9, which says that "men ... are made after the similitude of God." I know our view goes against what most churches teach and is certainly open to debate, but taking the Bible too literally should not be sufficient cause to say we are not Christians. We really bother some people by our literal views of Luke 24 (and other passages on the resurrection and the nature of God). In this chapter (verses 36-43), the resurrected Christ shows his body to his surprised disciples. They first think it is a spirit, but Christ asks them to feel his tangible body: "handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." To drive the point home, he then asks for some food, and eats it in front of them. We actually believe that this happened and was a real event, not a dream or a metaphor. In contrast to my understanding of the standard Trinity doctrine (God "without body, parts, and passions"), we believe in a literal resurrection and believe that Christ is a resurrected Being with a tangible body, exactly as He showed us in Luke 24. And Christ, in the image of God, said in John 14:9 that "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" - which I interpret as meaning that Christ looks like the Father. This is consistent with Col. 1:15 which describes Christ, the "firstborn of every creature," as "the image of the invisible God." Christ, in my view, has a tangible, glorious body. It is spiritual, being divine and permanently united with His spirit, but it is also tangible and real. It does not limit Him, but adds to His power and glory (see Philippians 3:21). All this means, of course, that we believe God and Christ to be one Godhead (with the Holy Ghost), perfectly one in purpose, yet not one in substance. I feel that view is quite consistent with the Bible. Again, in Acts 7:55,56, Stephen, who is being martyred by enemies of the Church, sees God and Christ standing at the right hand of God. He saw two distinct beings - just as Joseph Smith did in his First Vision. In John 14:28, Christ says that "my Father is greater than I." In John 20:17, the newly resurrected Lord tells Mary to tell His disciples ("my brethren") that He will "ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and unto my God, and your God." Paul, in 1 Cor. 11:3, notes that the "head of Christ is God" just as "the head of the woman is the man" and the "head of every man is Christ." The implication to me is that distinct beings have distinct roles, allowing one to be the head, but in each case there is or should be unity. Indeed, the husband and wife should be "one flesh" according to the scriptures, believers and Christ should be one just as Christ and God are one (John 17:20-23) - but this unity does not imply that there is only one Being having three roles or manifestations or even "persons" of one substance. (You may also wish to compare Matt. 5:48 with Luke 13:32, Heb. 2:10, and Heb. 5:8,9.) God is the Father, Christ is the Son, yet he represents the Father and is God Himself, part of the united Godhead. It is appropriate to call Christ the Everlasting Father, not only because of His unity with God but because of His role as Creator, as described in Heb. 1:1-3 and Col. 1:15-18, and as Author of our salvation. The distinctness of the three Beings in the Godhead is evident in Matthew 3:13-17, in which Christ is baptized. In this event, Christ is in the water, the Holy Ghost is descending in the form of a dove, and the Father speaks from heaven saying, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Likewise, the many times that Christ went off to pray to the Father in private would be confusing, in my opinion, if Christ were the same substance and Being as the Father. In my reading of the Bible, they are distinct. Though there are distinct Beings, there is only one Godhead and only one source of salvation. Through their unity, to worship Christ is to worship the Father. In general, we worship and pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ, though Christ represents the Father and is one with Him. Of course, you don't have to agree with us! Feel free to charge us with being overly literal. And for good measure, why not say we are wackos and fools? But please don't say that we aren't Christians if we don't interpret the Bible the way you do. It pains me much less to be called a wacko and a fool (which is at least partially correct, in fact) than to be rashly denied the one label that I truly desire: Christian. Why did President Hinckley say Mormons don't believe in the Jesus of the Bible? An amazing new deception among anti-Mormons who really must know better is corrupting the words of President Gordon B. Hinckley, arguing that he said we don't believe in the Jesus of the Bible. Ah! An admission that we aren't Christian. What more proof is needed? Here's a passage giving President Hinckley's words from his famous interview with Larry King: "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p.7 ) You said that he denied believing in the Christ of the Bible. What President Hinckley is saying is well known to LDS people: we don't believe in the kind of Christ taught by modern tradition, the Christ of the Nicene Creed and other traditional expressions of belief devised long after the Bible. President Hinckley is distinguishing us from the Trinitarian tradition of modern Christianity, not from the Bible. President Hinckley's views were further clarified in the Sunday morning session of the April 2002 General Conference session of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: As a Church we have many critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say. Our faith, our knowledge is not based on ancient traditions, the creeds which came of a finite understanding and out of the almost infinite discussions of men trying to arrive at a definition of the risen Christ. Our faith, our knowledge comes from the witness of a prophet in this dispensation who saw before him the great God of the universe and His Beloved son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. They spoke to him. He spoke to them. He testified openly, unequivocally, and unabashedly of that great vision of the Almighty Redeemer of the world glorifying our understanding, but unequivocating in the knowledge it brought. We have affirmed over and over a belief in Christ of the Bible, not a belief in the Trinity, which in LDS scripture and theology is part of what is referred to as the "traditions of men." President Hinckley in his comments to Larry King and in General Conference was explaining that when Joseph Smith saw Christ standing on the right hand of God in the First Vision, he saw that Jesus was a separate Being from the Father, and thus suddenly knew more of the true nature of God and the Son than all the Trinitarian theologians in the world knew because he had seen for himself that the traditions handed down from the time of the post-Biblical church councils and creeds were wrong. Joseph saw, as Stephen of old had seen in Acts 7:55,56, that Jesus was a separate Being from the Father, in the image of the Father, and that we are all created in the physical image of both the Father and the Son. We definitely do believe in the real Jesus of the Bible and have affirmed that incessantly, but we reject the post-biblical creeds that gave the world the tradition of a God fashioned by Hellenistic philosophy, without body, parts, and passions, wherein the Son and the Father are of one immaterial substance. If someone knew very little of LDS doctrine, I can understand that they might mistake "tradition" for the Bible in President Hinckley's quote. But those who twist President Hinckley's words to claim that we don't believe in the Jesus of the Bible are wasting their time and their talents: they are desperately needed in politics. Isn't your emphasis on works a departure from historic Christianity? In spite of the clearly scriptural basis for our belief that we should follow Christ and strive to obey his commandments in order to gain full access to the gift of His grace (see my discussion on grace, works, and salvation), many of our critics claim that our approach is a departure from "historic Christianity." What some of them don't understand is that their Christian tradition, which they call "historic Christianity," is actually a fairly modern flavor of Christianity deriving from a sixteenth-century movement in northern Europe and is not nearly so universal or historic as they think. Turning to the earliest writings of Christianity, we find doctrines that actually come remarkably close to the views of modern Latter-day Saints, views that would get those early Christians labeled as unchristian heretics by some defenders of "historic Christianity." I believe that anyone familiar with genuine LDS doctrine will enjoy reading a collection of the earliest Christian writings available outside the New Testament in The Apostolic Fathers, (2nd ed., translated by J.B. Lightfoot and J.R. Harmer, ed. and rev. by M.W. Holmes, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, MI, 1989). Most of the sermons and letters in this collection resonate well with LDS beliefs, and some sound like typical, modern General Conference sermons. On the other hand, those who deny the importance of obedience, works, continuing repentance, striving for perfection, and respect for bishops and apostles and living prophets, will be troubled by this book or may dismiss it as heresy. But those writings are respected, undeniably Christian writings from before the era of Augustine and the creeds, an era in which Greek philosophy and political machinations had much sway on the development of the surviving remnants of the original Church. For example, here are some passages from "The Letter of the Romans to the Corinthians, Commonly Known as First Clement," in The Apostolic Fathers: Seeing, then, that he desires all his beloved to participate in repentance, he confirmed it by an act of his almighty will. Therefore, let us be obedient to his magnificent and glorious will, let us fall down before him and return to his compassions, laying aside the fruitless toil and the strife and the jealousy that leads to death. Let us fix our eyes on those who perfectly served his magnificent glory....Abraham, who was called "the Friend," was found faithful in that he became obedient to the words of God. (p. 33) [L]et us strengthen ourselves, that we may humbly walk in obedience to his holy words....Therefore it is right and holy, brothers, that we should be obedient to God.... (p. 35) Take care, dear friends, lest his many benefits turn into a judgment upon all of us, as will happen if we fail to live worthily of him, and to do harmoniously those things which are good and well-pleasing in his sight.... Let us realize how near he is, and that nothing escapes him, either our thoughts or the plans which we make. (p. 40) [L]et us do all the things that pertain to holiness... "For God," he says, "resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble." Let us therefore join with those to whom grace is given by God.... [Let us be] humble and self-controlled, keeping ourselves far from all backbiting and slander, being justified by works and not by words.... And so we, having been called through his will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves or through our own wisdom or understanding or piety or works which we have done in holiness of heart, but through faith, by which the almighty God has justified all who ever existed from the beginning.... What then shall we do, brothers?... let us hasten with earnestness and zeal to accomplish every good work.... It is, therefore necessary that we should be zealous to do good, for all things come from him. For he forewarns us, "Behold, the Lord comes, and his reward is with him, to pay each one according to his work." (pp. 44-46) Blessed are we, dear friends, if we continue to keep God's commandments in the harmony of love, that our sins may be forgiven through love. (p. 56) How can you be a Christian when your doctrines are inconsistent with Christianity? "My understanding is that the LDS Church believes that we may become gods... And more than that, the church believes that God Himself used to be like us! This seems contradictory to Christianity." I definitely consider myself a Christian, meaning that I look to Christ as my Savior and Redeemer, and that I seek to follow Him. You may disagree with other doctrines, but please don't assume this means that I am not Christian. However, I realize that some of our doctrines, as painted by opponents of the Church, sound odd, especially our ideas about the relationship between man and God. But our doctrines are rooted in scripture and are those of the earliest Christians - really. Is not Christ God? Is he not one with the Father? Did not Christ come to earth - being born of a mortal woman - and obtain a physical body, as we do? Was He not like us? (Heb. 2:16-18) Didn't He eat and drink and sleep - and then die? How marvelous that God himself - Jesus Christ - did become like one of us to put Himself in a position where He could take upon Himself our sins, opening the door for mercy and forgiveness, and that He also gave His life that He might take it up again, opening the door for all to be resurrected. Yes, we believe that. It pains me that so many ministers proclaim we are not Christian because they say that "the church believes that God Himself used to be like us." God is eternal and His truths and His ways do not change - yet Jesus Christ, God, became mortal and then obtained a tangible, resurrected body (Luke 24). It's not blasphemous or unchristian to believe that. As to humans becoming "gods", you refer to our much-attacked belief that we can become more like Christ, becoming eternal, resurrected beings in the kingdom of God sharing some of the attributes of Christ and the Father. To me, that does not mean that anyone will worship us rather than the Father, for all glory is His and to Him forever. This is a heavy doctrine that is quite Biblical. Romans 8: 14-17 points out that we are sons of God, and thus can be "JOINT HEIRS" with Christ, and that we will be glorified with a degree of glory. That pretty much summarizes my beliefs on this matter. It's heavy, ponderous, controversial, but not unchristian. For more information on this topic, please see my LDSFAQ page on the Divine Potential of the Children of God. After reading the above comments, another person recently wrote me that LDS people are not Christian because we think that Christ became like us: "I don't personally think that Jesus Christ was like us (human). I don't know any human that can do the miracles he did, neither do I know any humans that can resurrected and return as he did." But this is the point of His Atonement, that He became like us that we might be able to become more like Him. He was unique in being perfect and having divine power to overcome death, but he was also mortal by virtue of His earthly mother, Mary, which gave him power to die, to suffer and to experience temptation as we do. He was like us in many ways, yet was fully the Son of God. While He was perfect, we are also commanded to become perfect like Him (Matt. 5:48) and are promised that we shall resurrect and have a glorious immortal body like His (Phil. 3:21), that we may become "like Him" (1 John 3:2) and be joint-heirs with Him (Romans 8:14-18). Not only does He promise us the blessing of resurrection and eternal life, if we accept and follow Him, but He sometimes gives humans His power to do mighty miracles as He did (e.g., Moses, Stephen, Peter, Paul, etc.). Consider a few of the many relevant passages of New Testament scripture: Hebrews 2: 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. 13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. . . . 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. Philippians 2: 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: His followers even spoke of Him as a "man" - at least in some ways: Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1 Corinthians 15 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Romans 8: 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. Doesn't historical Christianity contradict the idea that there can be multiple "gods"? (This question and related ones are addressed in more detail on my LDSFAQ page about the divine potential of human beings.) If we fully follow Christ, we can become "joint-heirs" with Him (Romans 8:14-18), becoming like him (1 John 3:2) by putting on the divine nature (2 Peter 1: 4-10). Such Christ-centered beings are sons and daughters of God (Acts 17:28; Heb. 12:9) who can become the kind of beings that Christ called "gods" in John 10:34-36: Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of god came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? Such beings are "gods" in a limited sense, called so because they can represent God and serve Him with power. They could be called heavenly servants, but the Bible uses the term "gods" (the Hebrew "elohim") several times to describe non-ultimate beings who are still subject to God. In Latter-day Saint theology, we are here on this earth as part of a divine process that can - if we follow Christ and fully accept his grace allow us to become one with Christ, as Christ is one with the Father (John 17:20-23); to sit with Christ on His throne (Rev. 3:21); to receive a glorified, immortal body like the body that Christ has (Philip. 3:21); and to partake of the divine nature and be given all things pertaining to life and godliness, receiving glory from God (2 Peter 1:3-4). All this adds to the glory of God, just as a parent is pleased and "glorified" by the success and happiness of his children. In 1 Corinthians 8:5,6, Paul notes that there are many gods (in the small "g" sense), but these are not beings that we worship, for to us, there is only one God, the Eternal Father. We believe that there may be and will be many resurrected beings who have become joint-heirs with Christ and can thus be called "gods," but they are not our Savior, our Creator, our Lord, and our God. To us, there is and always will be but one God, that Being who is properly called the "God of gods" (Deut. 10:17), the Almighty God, even Elohim, the Eternal Father. We will always worship and follow Him. Are these views non-Biblical? No. Do they contradict the views held in early Christianity? No. The widely respect ancient Christian saint, Clement of Alexandria, expressed this view: "Those who have been perfected are given their reward and their honors. They have done with their purification, they have done with the rest of their service, though it be a holy service, with the holy; now they become pure in heart, and because of their close intimacy with the Lord there awaits them a restoration to eternal contemplation; and they have received the title of 'gods' since they are destined to be enthroned with the other 'gods' who are ranked next below the savior." (Stromata 7:10 (55-56), in Henry S. Bettenson, The Early Christian Fathers, London, Oxford Univ. Press, 1969, pp. 243-244.) Likewise wrote Saint Jerome: "'Give thanks to the God of Gods.' The prophet is referring to those Gods of whom it is written, I said 'ye are gods;' and again: 'God arises in the divine assembly.'" ("Homily 47 on Psalm 135," in The Homilies of Saint Jerome, ed. Marie L. Ewald, 2 vols., Washington, D.C., The Catholic University of America Press, 1964, 1:353.) Even the great John Chrysostom (A.D. 407) wrote that "man can, by his own efforts, attain the likeness of God by mastering his passions." (J.N.D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines, Rev. edition, Harper and Row, San Francisco, 1978, p. 348, as cited by Peterson and Ricks, Offenders for a Word, Aspen Books, Salt Lake City, UT, 1992, p.79.) Though less widely respected than Clement or Jerome or other early saints, the early Christian writer, Origen, was hardly engaging in non-scriptural or apostate doctrine when he wrote the following comments on the Gospel of John while serving as head of the Christian Church in Alexandria, Egypt: "There are some gods of whom God is god, as we hear in the prophecy, 'Thank ye the God of gods,' and "The God of gods hath spoken, and called the earth.' Now God, according to the Gospel, 'is not the God of the dead but of the living.' Those gods, then, are living of whom God is god. The Apostle, too, writing to the Corinthians, says, 'As there are gods many and lords many,' and so we have spoken of these gods as really existing. Now there are, besides the gods of whom God is god, certain others." (Origen, "Commentary on John, in Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, eds., The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 1886-1890, reprint, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1978-1981, 10:315.) Are these views incompatible with modern mainstream Christianity? Many churches are appalled with our doctrine, no doubt, but consider this quote from that wonderful Christian, C.S. Lewis: "The command Be ye perfect [Matt. 5:48] is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were "gods" and he is going to make good His words. If we let Him - for we can prevent Him, if we choose - He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, a dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what he said." (Mere Christianity, Collier Books, MacMillan Publ. Co., New York, 1943; paperback edition, 1960, p. 160 - it's the last paragraph of Chapter 9, "Counting the Cost," in Book IV) As further food for thought, recent studies of ancient Judaism and early Christianity have identified the doctrine of "theosis" - the idea than man can become divine or godlike - as an important theological element, one which has been largely abandoned in recent centuries. The earliest Biblical occurrence of this idea is in Genesis 3:22, for when Adam partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, God said, "the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." Adam became godlike - in a sense - through the knowledge that he gained (cf. Psalms 82:6). This concept is prevalent in Biblical and post-Biblical Judaism, according to a recent scholarly, non-LDS work by Peter Hayman ("Monotheism - A Misused Word in Jewish Studies?," Journal of Jewish Studies, 42: 1-15, Spring 1991, as cited by Peterson and Ricks, p.78), who writes: The theme of 'becoming like one of us' reveals itself as the lurking subtext of Judaism from Adam to Nachman of Bratslav. But how does this material square with the supposed transcendental monotheism of Judaism from the post-exilic period on? Not at all, as far as I can see!... [Many Jewish mythical texts] presuppose that humans can become divine and dispose of the powers of God." (Hayman, pp. 4-5) Extensive literature, for example, deals with human ascension to heaven as deification, with Enoch as a common example. Evidence for this from early Christianity and the Enoch literature is treated by Alan F. Segal in Paul the Convert: The Apostolate and Apostasy of Saul the Pharisee (Yale, New Haven, CT, 1960, pp. 22, 34-71, as cited by Peterson and Ricks, p. 78). In addition to the quotes above from Jerome, Origen, John Chrysostom and Clement of Alexandria, the possibility of human deification was held by that "champion of orthodoxy," Athanasius (e.g., see Keith E. Norman, "Deification: The Content of Athanasian Soteriology," Ph.D. Dissertation, Duke University, 1980, pp. 77-106; and Clyde L. Manschreck, A History of Christianity in the World, 2nd ed., Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1985, p. 62, both as cited by Ricks and Peterson, p. 78). We find it in early Orthodox tradition as well, for the 'chief idea of St. Maximus [who died in 662 A.D.] as of all of Eastern theology, [was] the idea of deification" (S.L. Epifanovic as quoted by Jaroslav Pelikan, The Spirit of Eastern Christendom (600-1700). The Christian Tradition, vol. 2, University of Chicago Press, Chicago, 1974, p. 10, as cited by Peterson and Ricks, p. 79). So what does all this mean in terms of LDS doctrine and our relationship to "historic Christianity"? The German Protestant church historian, Ernst Benz, speaks of this doctrine as a Christian doctrine, and says: "One can think what one wants of this doctrine of progressive deification, but one thing is certain: with this anthropology Joseph Smith is closer to the view of man held by the Ancient Church than the precursors of the Augustinian doctrine of original sin were, who considered the thought of such a substantial connection between God and man as the heresy, par excellance." Ernst W. Benz, "Imago Dei: Man in the Image of God," in Reflections on Mormonism: Judaeo-Christian Parallels, ed. Truman G. Madsen, Religious Studies Center, BYU, Provo, UT, 1978, pp. 215-216, as cited by Peterson and Ricks, p. 80. The LDS belief that man can become more like God (theosis) is commonly said to prove that we have departed from the Bible and historic Christianity, but this attack is patently unfair. It is found in the Bible, in early Jewish and Christian writings, and in a direct quote from Christ himself (John 10:34). It is an important concept in the writings of C.S. Lewis. Does acceptance of this doctrine make one a pagan? Some say so, but they are not quite being fair. If "historic Christianity" is taken to mean modern Protestant fundamentalism, then I'll admit we have departed in a big way. But who has really departed from what? Now I think you'll never hear a Latter-day Saint saying that Protestants aren't Christian because they don't accept our views, but if we were as nasty as some say we are, we could make the old sword of exclusion swing both ways. But we accept all as Christians who sincerely believe in Christ, regardless of how well we think they interpret the Bible or how well they heed the words of past and living prophets of God. Actually, when it comes to God, we are all infants and know almost nothing. Latter-day Saints especially must be very cautious in how they interpret and understand the doctrine of becoming more like God. It is too heavy and ponderous for us to understand or contemplate, and should only be treated reverently and cautiously. In any case, all glory is to the Father, whom we will forever worship and adore. May we learn to know Him and His Son (John 17:3), for that is eternal life. Are we Christians? Absolutely. We are different in our views from many modern Churches, but it is Christ through whom we gain salvation, Christ that gives us hope, Christ that breaks the bands of sin and death for us and offers us eternal life in His presence with the Father. Through Christ, we can become more like Him and even become joint-heirs of the Father. May we learn to fully accept Christ and follow Him with all our hearts. The strong relationship between early Christian teachings and LDS doctrine on the divine potential of human beings was explored in a recent master's thesis by a Roman Catholic Dominican monk, Father Jordan Vajda, at the University of California, Berkeley. In 2003, after publication of his thesis, he took the missionary discussions and became LDS, but he was a faithful Catholic when he wrote his thesis. I discuss a couple aspects of his work on my new page of questions for LDS critics, "My Turn." The work in question is Jordan Vajda, OP, "Partakers of the Divine Nature": A Comparative Analysis of the Patristic and Mormon Doctrines of Divinization, master's thesis, Graduate Theological Union at the University of California, Berkeley, 1998, published under the same title as Occasional Paper No. 3 by the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies (Provo, Utah, 2002). Father Vajda's conclusion (pp. 56-57) contains this interesting passage, referring to the critics who published the lurid anti-Mormon film, "The Godmakers": Yet what was meant to be a term of ridicule ["godmakers"] has turned out to be a term of approbation, for the witness of the Greek Fathers of the Church, described in chapter two, is that they also believed that salvation meant "becoming a god." It seems that if one's soteriology cannot accommodate a doctrine of human divinization, then it has at least implicitly, if not explicitly, rejected the heritage of the early Christian church and departed from the faith of first millennium Christianity. . . . And the supreme irony is that such persons should probably investigate the claims of the LDS Church, which proclaims that within itself is to be found the "restoration of all things." Father Vajda was a faithful Catholic who, at the time of his writing, saw Catholicism as a viable dispensation of original Christianity that can be consistent with early Christian teachings. He did not agree with the LDS view on the Trinity at that time, but recognized that there are significant parallels between early Christian doctrines on "becoming a god" and what we claim to be the restored doctrine of exaltation, and correctly pointed out the fallacies of our critics who charge us with being non-Christian for having such truly Christian doctrines. And I agree that our evangelical critics would do well to consider how far they have departed from early Christianity and to investigate the Restoration found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Now that Father Vajda has become Brother Vajda, a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, critics will use that as an excuse to ignore the scholarly work that he published as a Catholic. However, the fact that he eventually converted after examining the LDS position ought to weigh heavily in the thinking of those who are sincerely seeking truth. How can you be Christians when you don't accept Christ as God? "Mormons are not Christians. Mormons believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Christians believe that He was not only the Son of God, but He was God incarnate. Jesus is God the Father and God the Son. That's the difference." We certainly do believe that Christ is God and Lord. Jesus was and is the Son of God, but He is also part of the Godhead, is one with the Father (see John 10:30 and John 17:20-23), and is called the Father of Heaven and Earth, the Everlasting Father, and the Eternal Father in LDS scriptures (the Book of Mormon, the Bible, Doctrine and Covenants). Among His many titles, the title of Father does not mean He is the same person or same being as God the Father, but expresses His role as the author and finisher of our salvation, as our Redeemer, as the Creator of the earth (in His premortal existence under the direction of the Father), as the Firstfruits of the Resurrection, and as the authorized representative of the Father. Yes, we don't believe that He is the same Being as God the Father, but neither did He! Christ said "My Father is greater than I" in John 14:28. Christ said He did not teach His own doctrines, but only those that He had heard or seen from the Father. Examples are found in John 7:16-18 (especially clear!), John 15:15, John 8:38, John 12:49-50, and John 5:19. Christ spent much time praying and fasting to draw closer to His Father and receive support from Him. Immediately after His Resurrection, he told Mary that He had not yet ascended to His Father (John 20:17). All of this makes no sense at all if they are the same person or same being. The baptism of Christ also provides evidence that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate, for they were in three separate places, as recorded in Matthew 3: 13-17. Christ was in the water, the Father spoke from heaven, and the Holy Ghost was descending in the form of a dove. The Father from heaven said, "This is my beloved son." He didn't say "this is me," but that Christ was His Son. Yet though Christ was the Son of God, He is a member of the Godhead with the Father and the Holy Ghost. He is Lord and God, perfectly one in heart and mind with the Father - but they are not of one substance without body, parts or passions, for that teaching (part of the Trinity doctrine) came centuries after Christ as learned men sought to make Christianity more appealing to "educated" people steeped in Greek philosophy, to whom a physically real God with a tangible body was utterly revolting. Why do you think you're Christian when you don't accept the Bible as the final authority and rely on writings beside the Bible? The person who posed this question also said that we are not Christian because we don't accept the creeds that define the doctrine of the Trinity. Can you see the irony here? We are condemned as non-Christian (1) for having authoritative writings outside the Bible and (2) for not accepting the extra-Biblical creeds of the third and fourth centuries as authoritative. Do we accept the Bible as scripture? Yes! Do we accept it as the final authority? No. God is the final authority, which is why it's so important that there be continuing revelation through prophets to guide His Church. If we relied on the Bible as final authority, immediately we face troubling questions: Which Bible? Which translation? Which interpretation? There have been many different canons proposed over the centuries. Even today, the Catholic Bible contains many additional books beyond what is generally accepted by Protestants. And for a given canon, there are many translations, some of which are contradictory. The printed, translated copies of the Bibles we have today are filled with inspiration - as well as the work of human minds. No one of these can be relied on as the final authority. God is the final authority, and we are commanded to live by every word that comes out of His mouth - including words in new volumes of scripture like the Book of Mormon and words from his living prophets and apostles. Can we truly follow Christ - and be true Christians - if we reject those whom he has sent, and if we reject sacred writings He has prepared for us? For more information on this topic, please see my Book of Mormon page. Of course, since there was no complete Bible as we know it until long after the Apostolic era (just scattered separate epistles and writings, with no known attempts at a canon for decades after the last apostle had died), the earliest Christians also did not rely on the Bible as the final authority. Rather, they relied on continuing revelation from Christ, through apostles and prophets - the rock on which the Church was built. Remember, the Bible says nothing about itself to imply that the canon is complete. As one of many passages implying incompleteness, consider John 21:25, which states: "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." John understood that there could have been many other books written to describe all the words and deeds of Christ. What he and others offered was limited to a minute fraction of what could have been written. It is a purely human assumption that all of the truly important material has been recorded and preserved, and an even more ridiculous assumption that we have no need for anything more. We must live by every word of God (Matt. 4:4), and as long as He lives, He will have words to speak, if only we are willing to listen. As we read in Acts 11:26,27, one of the only places in the Bible that uses the word "Christian," the people that were first called Christians had the benefit of having prophets among them. Doesn't it make sense that modern Christians ought to accept God's living prophets and apostles as well? How can you be Christians when you don't accept the standard Christian creeds? One form of this question/accusation came from a Christian minister writing to me in 1997: Orthodox Christianity is defined fairly simply by the acceptance of the apostles creed and the nicean creed as what we believe scripture tells us about Christ and who he is. Mormon theology is not in agreement with these understandings. Furthermore, Mormonism will never be accepted as simply another "Christian denomination" as long as the extra-biblical books are accepted as authoritative alongside of scripture (The Bible). I find it most interesting that the modern criteria for "orthodox Christianity" used to exclude Latter-day Saints would also exclude the original Christians. The earliest Christians did not accept the Nicean Creed or any other post-Biblical creeds, for those philosophical statements had not yet been formulated. Indeed, the concept of God being without body, parts, or passions or the concept of being of one immaterial substance is simply not in the earliest Christian writings or the scriptures. Those concepts were later developments, influenced in part by Greek philosophy, as I discuss on my page Are Mormons a Cult? at http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_cult.shtml. Likewise, if Mormons aren't Christians for accepting additional books of scripture, I'm afraid early Christians weren't either. Ever wonder why it's called the NEW Testament? It was a new volume of scripture - actually a canon of many new volumes of scripture. Many early Christians eventually came to accept the Gospel of Matthew, for example, as NEW scripture in addition to the traditional Jewish writings. Many early Christians also accepted a variety of books not in our current Bible, such as the book of Enoch, the Shepherd of Hermas, and others. (For more information on this topic, see my discussion of the Bible at "http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Bible.shtml".) If accepting new scripture is incompatible with Christianity, we'll have to exclude the first Christians as well - but at least we'll be in good company. The Jews that rejected Christ had their scriptures and would have no more. They wanted no more revelation, to their condemnation. That same spirit is alive today, opposing modern revelation and scripture from God. How sad that is. The arguments you use to exclude us as Christians would exclude the Christians of the New Testament. I hope you'll note the significance of this point. Wasn't it just in the past few years the Mormons have started to pretend to be Christians in order to better fit into society? Top If we are just pretending when we preach of Christ, rejoice in Christ, and worship Christ, it's a pretense that has been going on unabated since the Church was founded in 1830. Our core, foundational focus on Christ has been emphasized and preached and proclaimed loudly from the beginning, as one can learn with but a brief glance at the cover page or almost any chapter in the Book of Mormon, or a quick scan of our Articles of Faith as written by Joseph Smith, or a cursory study of other LDS canonical writings such as the New Testament. The very name of the Church, which some of our critics are loathe to mention, ought to be a clue: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Every Sunday for the past 166 years, Latter-day Saints have partaken of the sacrament (the communion) in remembrance of the death and resurrection of Christ. Every meeting includes prayers that are to the Father in the name of Christ. Baptism and all other ordinances are performed in the name of Christ. Latter-day Saints are Christians. That is not because of any recent change in doctrine or practice - that's what the Church has been about all along. As Joseph Smith explained, The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 121) Here is a quote from Joseph when he speaks of righteous men waging the true Christian warfare against evil (cited in Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, compiled by Alma P. Burton [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1977], p. 226): He that will war the true Christian warfare against the corruptions of these last days will have wicked men and angels of devils, and all the infernal powers of darkness continually arrayed against him. When wicked and corrupt men oppose, it is a criterion to judge, if a man is warring the Christian warfare. When all men speak evil of you falsely, blessed are ye, etc. Shall a man be considered bad when men speak evil of him? No. If a man stands and opposes the world of sin, he may expect to have all wicked and corrupt spirits arrayed against him. But it will be but a little season, and all these afflictions will be turned away from us, inasmuch as we are faithful, and are not overcome by these evils. By seeing the blessings of the endowment rolling on, the kingdom increasing and spreading from sea to sea, we shall rejoice that we were not overcome by these foolish things. (HC 5:141.) Of course, the concept that Mormon are Christian was obvious and inherent to anyone familiar with the Church - so obvious that it didn't need to be defended. It was just a matter of fact. As one of many examples that could be cited, here is a comment from B.H. Roberts written in the 1930s in History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (vol. 2, pp. xxiv - xxvi): The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints was never intended to be merely an American sect of religion. It is a new and the last dispensation of the Christian religion--the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times, the dispensation into which will be gathered all former dispensations of the Gospel of Christ; all keys of authority, all powers, all gifts, all graces essential to the welfare and salvation of man--all that is essential to the completion of the mission of the Christian religion. But recently, some of our opponents have sought to frighten others by denying our belief in Christ, and attempting to link us to Eastern religions or dangerous "cults." This is a deceptive effort, made in genuinely bad faith. Unfortunately, it has affected many people, and has required a response from us. Of course we are Christians, we proclaim - and now these enemies say we are putting on a new face, when in fact we are wiping off the mud they insist on slinging at us. Mormons weren't the only ones in those early days who recognized the obvious Christian nature of our religion. Here is a comment from a non-LDS visitor to Nauvoo, published in the Juliet Courier in 1841 (cited in Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, compiled by Alma P. Burton [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1977], pp. 8-9): In the first place, I cannot help noticing the plain hospitality of the Prophet, Smith, to all strangers visiting the town, aided as he is, in making the stranger comfortable by his excellent wife, a woman of superior ability. The people of the town appear to be honest and industrious, engaged in their usual vocations of building up a town, and making all things around them comfortable. On Sunday I attended one of their meetings, in front of the Temple now building, and one of the largest buildings in the state. There could not have been less than 2,500 people present, and as well appearing as any number that could be found in this or any state. Mr. Smith preached in the morning, and one could have readily learned, then, the magic by which he has built up this society, because, as we say in Illinois, "they believe in him," and in his honesty. It has been a matter of astonishment to me, after seeing the Prophet, as he is called, Elder Rigdon, and many other gentlemanly men anyone may see at Nauvoo, who will visit there--why it is, that so many professing Christianity, and so many professing to reverence the sacred principles of our Constitution (which gives free religious toleration to all), have slandered, and persecuted this sect of Christians. (History of the Church 4:381.) By the way, the Juliet Courier came from the city now known as Joliet, Illinois and was first published in 1839 (some historical information is provided by its modern descendant, the Herald News). A letter from a Congressman who heard Joseph Smith preach saw no incongruity with Christianity. This is a letter from Mathew L. Davis, Member of the U.S. House of Representatives, Washington, 6th February, 1840 (Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, op. cit., pp. 11-14): My Dear Mary:--I went last evening to hear "Joe Smith," the celebrated Mormon, expound his doctrine. I, with several others, had a desire to understand his tenets as explained by himself. He is not an educated man; but he is a plain, sensible, strong minded man. Everything he says, is said in a manner to leave an impression that he is sincere. There is no levity, no fanaticism, no want of dignity in his deportment. He is apparently from forty to forty-five years of age, rather above the middle stature, and what you ladies would call a very good looking man. In his garb there are no peculiarities; his dress being that of a plain, unpretending citizen. He is by profession a farmer, but is evidently well read. He commenced by saying, that he knew the prejudices which were abroad in the world against him, but requested us to pay no respect to the rumors which were in circulation respecting him or his doctrines. He was accompanied by three or four of his followers. He said, "I will state to you our belief, so far as time will permit." "I believe," said he, "that there is a God, possessing all the attributes ascribed to him by all Christians of all denominations; that he reigns over all things in heaven and on earth, and that all are subject to his power." He then spoke rationally of the attributes of Divinity, such as foreknowledge, mercy &c., &c. He then took up the Bible. "I believe," said he, "in this sacred volume. In it the 'Mormon' faith is to be found. We teach nothing but what the Bible teaches. We believe nothing, but what is to be found in this book. I believe in the fall of man, as recorded in the Bible; I believe that God foreknew everything, but did not foreordain everything; I deny that foreordain and foreknow is the same thing. He foreordained the fall of man; but all merciful as he is, he foreordained at the same time, a plan of redemption of all mankind. I believe in the Divinity of Jesus Christ, and that He died for the sins of all men, who in Adam had fallen." He then entered into some details, the result of which tended to show his total unbelief of what is termed original sin. He believes that it is washed away by the blood of Christ, and that it no longer exists. As a necessary consequence, he believes that we are all born pure and undefiled. That all children dying at an early age (say eight years) not knowing good from evil, were incapable of sinning; and that all such assuredly go to heaven. "I believe," said he, "that a man is a moral, responsible, free agent; that although it was foreordained he should fall, and be redeemed, yet after the redemption it was not foreordained that he should again sin. In the Bible a rule of conduct is laid down for him; in the Old and New Testaments the law by which he is to be governed, may be found. If he violates that law, he is to be punished for the deeds done in the body. "I believe that God is eternal. That He had no beginning, and can have no end. Eternity means that which is without beginning or end. I believe that the soul is eternal; and had no beginning; it can have no end." Here he entered into some explanations, which were so brief that I could not perfectly comprehend him. But the idea seemed to be that the soul of man, the spirit, had existed from eternity in the bosom of Divinity; and so far as he was intelligible to me, must ultimately return from whence it came. He said very little of rewards and punishments; but one conclusion, from what he did say, was irresistible--he contended throughout, that everything which had a beginning must have an ending; and consequently if the punishment of man commenced in the next world, it must, according to his logic and belief have an end. During the whole of his address, and it occupied more than two hours, there was no opinion or belief that he expressed, that was calculated, in the slightest degree, to impair the morals of society, or in any manner to degrade and brutalize the human species. There was much in his precepts, if they were followed, that would soften the asperities of man towards man, and that would tend to make him a more rational being than he is generally found to be. There was no violence, no fury, no denunciation. His religion appears to be the religion of meekness, lowliness, and mild persuasion. Towards the close of his address, he remarked that he had been represented as pretending to be a Savior, a worker of miracles, etc. All this was false. He made no such pretensions. He was but a man, he said; a plain, untutored man; seeking what he should do to be saved. He performed no miracles. He did not pretend to possess any such power. He closed by referring to the Mormon Bible, which he said, contained nothing inconsistent or conflicting with the Christian Bible, and he again repeated that all who would follow the precepts of the Bible, whether Mormon or not, would assuredly be saved. Throughout his whole address, he displayed strongly a spirit of charity and forbearance. The Mormon Bible, he said, was communicated to him, direct from heaven. If there was such a thing on earth, as the author of it, then he (Smith) was the author; but the idea that he wished to impress was, that he had penned it as dictated by God. I have taken some pains to explain this man's belief, as he himself explained it. I have done so because it might satisfy your curiosity, and might be interesting to you, and some of your friends. I have changed my opinion of the Mormons. They are an injured and much-abused people. Of matters of faith, you know I express no opinion. . . . Affectionately your husband, M. L. Davis. P.S.--I omitted to say, he does not believe in infant baptism, sprinkling, but in immersion, after eight years of age. To Mrs. Mathew L. Davis, 107 Henry Street, New York. (Joseph Smith, History of the Church [HC], 4:78-80.) Those critics who complain today that we have recently started to emphasize the name Jesus Christ instead of "Mormon" are repeating a very old complaint. Thanks to Ted Jones for pointing out a statement from a Baptist missionary magazine published in 1912 that complained of the same thing: Another element in the menace of Mormonism today is found in its missionary work. . . . Evidence is constantly being received from all parts of the country that these missionaries are more and more widely gaining access to our homes and our communities. The literature which they freely distribute is not recognized because it nowhere bears the word Mormon, and because it seems to preach the gospel which we are accustomed to hear. Furthermore, the imprint of The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints is not recognized as the official name of the Mormon Church. (Mrs. Geo. W. Coleman, "The Menace of Mormonism," in Missions. A Baptist Monthly Magazine, Volume 3 (1912): 423-426. Published by the American Baptist Foreign Mission Society, Boston. Mrs. Coleman is listed as President, Council of Women for Home Missions. How can Mormons be Christians if they don't use the symbol of the cross? Top Some critics say we are not Christian because we do not use the symbol of the cross as they do. One can disagree with us, but that does not cost us our status as Christians. In fact, if we are excluded from Christianity for this reason, then the early Christians would also be excluded. According to non-LDS scholars, "In the first three centuries A.D. the cross was not openly used as a Christian symbol, for the early believers looked beyond the Crucifixion to the Resurrection, and the emphasis was not on the cross of suffering and humiliation but on the Promise of Life with CHrist here in the world and hereafter in the life beyond the grave" (H. Child and D. Colles, Christian Symbols: Ancient and Modern, Bell and Sons, London, 1971, p. 10, as cited by Daniel C. Peterson and Stephen D. Ricks, Offenders for a Word: How Anti-Mormons Play Word Games to Attack the Latter-day Saints, Aspen Books, Salt Lake City, UT, 1992, p. 132). Latter-day Saints and early Christians seem to share the same view on this matter. Even some modern Protestant writers make the same point. "The power of salvation, Paul says, is not in the cross, as fundamentalist evangelists have claimed, but in the resurrection" (L.J. Averill, Religious Right, Religious Wrong: A Critique of the Fundamentalist Phenomenon,, Pilgrim Books, New York, 1989, p. 88, as cited by Peterson and Ricks, p. 132). Here's our perspective: we worship the Resurrected, Living Christ. We remember his death and sacrifice each week as we partake of communion, etc., but we prefer to picture him as the glorious, living Lord. The cross was an instrument of torture and somehow to me just doesn't seem like an appropriate primary way to remember him (though you may find not-too-gory paintings of him on the cross in some LDS buildings and certainly in LDS publications). To illustrate my problem with the popular use of the cross, if my wife were stabbed to death, I wouldn't put knives on my wall to remember her - I'd put pictures of her while she was alive. Thus, we don't prefer to wear the cross and you'll never find crosses as ornaments on our buildings. I appreciate the significance of the symbol in Catholic and Protestant worship and respect its use. As an example of how we prefer to picture him, see the images at Official LDS Web Site. We also object to worship of graven images and feel uncomfortable with the way some people venerate the cross or statues of Christ or saints. That's not to say that it is wrong to have a statue or a picture, but they should not be objects of worship. You're so different from true Christianity [evangelical Protestantism, in the writer's mind]. Why do you say you are Christian? Top It seems that the loudest or most common voices denying our Christianity are found among Protestants, and particularly evangelical Protestants. Some such Protestants (hopefully a small minority) seem to believe that any beliefs other than theirs are outside the scope of Christianity. While we teach that there is but one true, restored Church of Jesus Christ on earth, we also teach that the many remnants of that original Church have much good on which we can build, and we insist that they are Christians, too, if they sincerely believe in Christ. For my evangelical Protestant brothers and sisters, I wish to point out that there is much more to "historic Christianity" than the traditions you are familiar with. In fact, the assumption that "historic Christianity" and Protestant doctrine are synonymous is tenuous indeed. Here is a matter-of-fact reminder on this issue from Daniel C. Peterson, one of my favorite professors at BYU, quoted with permission from 1999 e-mail: The fact is that evangelical Protestantism represents a faction, no more, of a minority faction, no more, of Christianity. That faction arose, relatively late, in northwestern Europe, and it is still basically dominant only among those of northwestern European extraction. It is distinctly a minority in Italy and Brazil and Mexico and Spain and France and Argentina, and it is virtually invisible in Greece and Romania and Russia and Armenia and the Ukraine, to say nothing of Syria, Turkey, Egypt, and Iraq. Latter-day Saints do not claim that their faith-group is exhaustive of Christendom. We recognize that there are Catholic and Orthodox and other Christians. Some evangelical Protestants seem reluctant, however, to grant that the Copts or the Catholics are Christians at all. Some say so implicitly, and others have told me so explicitly, under direct questioning. Latter-day Saints do, of course, claim that God has acted to restore the true fullness of Christianity, and that that fullness is embodied in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Such a claim can seem arrogant, and I, for one, would be very hesitant to make it -- indeed, I would refuse to make it -- were it not for the presupposition of direct revelation that undergirds it. To assert, as some evangelicals have declared directly to me, that they alone are Christians, and that they have arrived at their unique Christianity by virtue of their own reading of the Bible -- implicitly dismissing the other claimants to Christianity as either preternaturally stupid or irrationally evil or some mixture of the two -- seems to me both arrogant and, in view of the fact that the preponderant majority of world "Christians" hold to different opinions, quite unlikely to be true. Even to claim that evangelical Protestants alone are "biblical" or "orthodox" Christians, seems an improbable and smug declaration. That is the point. Ironically, Latter-day Saints rely, here, upon God's grace, where some of my evangelical interlocutors -- the ones that I have in mind -- seem quite evidently to trust in their own understanding. Didn't your own apostle, Bruce R. McConkie, tell Mormons not to worship Christ at a sermon given at BYU? Top I was there at that sermon. He was correcting a minor heresy in which some BYU students felt that their relationship to Christ was so advanced that they could pray directly to Him, not following the Biblical command to pray to the Father in the name of Christ (see Colossians 3:17). Elder McConkie was clarifying that "to us there is but one God" whom we worship (see 1 Cor. 8:6), "and one Lord, Jesus Christ," our advocate with the Father. He emphasized that Christ brings us to the Father and that the Father is the ultimate object of all true worship. He was not demoting Christ from the Godhead or urging us not to have a relationship with Jesus Christ, whom we follow and adore, but he was reminding us of the preeminence of the Father, and that we are to pray to Him in the name of Christ. Depending on just what you mean by the word "worship," it can be correct to say that we properly worship the Father in the name of Christ or that we properly worship the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Elder McConkie's views on Christ are nicely conveyed in a very popular LDS hymn that he wrote. It's Hymn 134 in the LDS hymnbook and bears the title, "I Believe in Christ." Here are some verses: I believe in Christ; he is my King! With all my heart to him I'll sing; I'll raise my voice in praise and joy, In grand amens my tongue employ. ... I believe in Christ - my Lord, my God! My feet he plants on gospel sod, I'll worship him with all my might; He is the source of truth and light. I believe in Christ; he ransoms me. From Satan's grasp he sets me free, And I shall live with joy and love In his eternal courts above. By the way, a lot of anti-Mormons seem to have never attended an LDS sacrament meeting and listened to the hymns we sing. If they did, they would immediately know that we are Christians. And they might even be inspired to join. After all, some of the most beautiful hymns you'll ever hear about Christ are sung in Latter-day Saint meetings. Give it a try! Isn't it objectively true that Mormons aren't Christians? Top Here's an excerpt from one message: You only say that you consider yourself a Christian. I'm curious to know why. Objectively speaking, Christianity and Mormonism are different religions. Notice, please, that I am not saying which one is right. If you look at the fundamental beliefs of Christianity and Mormonism, they are quite different... To say that you are a Christian because you believe in Jesus Christ is fallacious. Even the demons believe in Jesus Christ. You said "Objectively speaking, Christianity and Mormonism are different religions." EH?? What is this objective standard? Your statement requires the use of a very peculiar definition of Christian not supported by the dictionary or by the Bible. What people really mean, I have found, when they say that Mormons aren't Christian, is that Mormons don't believe exactly the same things that the accuser believes. There is no objective standard that says Christians must believe in the papacy or in the post-Biblical declarations of argumentative committees (Nicene Creed, for example) or in the writings of Martin Luther to be Christians. Christians are those who believe in and worship Jesus Christ, the Son of God. That's who I believe in AND worship. The demons believe/know and tremble - they do not follow or worship or seek to emulate Him. So what is this so-called objective standard? If you look up the references to "Christian" in the Bible - all three - you'll find that if anything, it supports the LDS position more strongly than any other religion, for the Christians had prophets among them (Acts 11). Does your religion provide prophets among your people? No - but I'm not going to tell you that you are a liar and a hypocrite for claiming to be a Christian. You may not believe that God and Christ are separate beings as the Bible teaches (e.g., John 14:28, Acts 7:55,56; John 17), but I will not tell people that you are not a Christian for that. You may accept post-Biblical creeds from fallible mortals as authoritative, even when they contradict the Bible - but I'll still accept you as a Christian. You may not believe that we are in the physical image of God as the Bible teaches (Gen. 1:26,27 + Gen. 5:1-3, among others), but I'll still accept you as a Christian. From my perspective, it is rather insolent to go around telling others what they believe instead of asking them what they believe, and telling them that they aren't Christians when they are. If you must continue in this path of excluding others as Christians who don't believe exactly the way you do, may I suggest you purchase the fabulous CultMaster 200 CD software to help in this formidable task? It's available at http://www.jefflindsay.com/CultMaster.shtml. And for you, it's only half price if you act fast! How can you call yourself Christians when don't worship the Jesus of the Bible? Top Here's an example of what is sadly very typical, sent to me by someone describing himself as a born-again Christian (received Feb. 22, 2000): I have been studying Mormonism for approximately eight years. The reason that I am emailing you is that you claim to be a Christian. Now, just because one calls themselves a Christian doesn't qualify them anymore than somebody going into a garage makes them a car! For example, the Mormon Jesus Christ is a created being; the spirit brother of Lucifer (Pearl of Great Price); the Biblical Jesus Christ is an untreated God! The Mormon Christ earned his own salvation (exaltation); the Biblical Christ as God, required no salvation; and finally, the Mormon Christ was conceived by the physical sex act of the Father (Adam or Elohim). No, Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit who overshadowed Mary, a true virgin. As a Christian, this last doctrine truly offends me ( Judea 3: "Defend the faith that was once delivered unto the saints"). Yes Mr. Lindsay, Mormonism is a cult! A theological cult, as opposed to a sociological cult, e.g., Jones town; Heaven's Gate; etc. The bottom line is this: I am not anti Mormon, I love Mormons! I am, however, anti Mormon theology and anti Mormon doctrine which contradicts biblical Christianity. Have you ever had someone come up to you and say you're not a Christian because the Protestant Jesus is an immaterial spirit essence but the real Jesus of the Bible is a physically resurrected being whose body can be touched, as described in Luke 24? Or because the Jesus of the Bible is the begotten Son of God, whose Father is greater than Him (John 14:28), in contrast to the Jesus of the Protestants who is the same Being as the Father? Or because the Jesus of the Bible said we must keep the commandments of God to be saved and endure to the end (Matt. 19, Matt. 24, Luke 10, etc.), while (so this rude, hypothetical person might say) the false Jesus of the Protestants teaches another Gospel of justification by faith alone without obedience? If I were Protestant and someone did that to me, calling me a cultist or non-Christian over doctrinal differences, I'd be deeply offended. Differences in interpretation of the scriptures does not mean that Protestants somehow worship a different Jesus and aren't Christian. And wouldn't you see past their claims to love Protestants if they actually went around insulting their beliefs and misrepresenting their faith? I sure would. The words you try to put in my mouth are most offensive, even nasty. True LDS doctrine says nothing about the sex stuff you claim I accept - the scriptures say Mary was a virgin, and that is what I believe. (Just what have you been studying for these 8 years? May I suggest you examine the LDS scriptures and General Conference reports to get a better feel for real LDS doctrine.) What you say we believe is not genuine LDS doctrine, but is a perversion of anti-Mormons who love to offend others on our behalf. Such portrayal of our beliefs is most unchristian. Have you ever had someone explain to you that you are a pagan because you practice cannibalism - referring to the communion? Others can describe that sacred ritual in the most offensive terms if they want to - but such is most unfair, as is your depiction of my beliefs. (Some Muslims, for example, really have a problem with Christian beliefs once they've had it presented to them as ritual cannibalism.) I hope you'll be more open-minded in the future. And I hope you'll understand that you are excluding people as Christians on the basis of a very dangerous definition: "Christians are only those who accept my interpretation of the Bible." Ironically, the Bible does not support you in your exclusionary use of the term Christian. As that word us used in the Bible (only 3 time, if you will look it up), Latter-day Saints fit perfectly well. Christians are those who believe in Jesus Christ, and, as we read in Acts, have prophets among them (Acts 11:26-30 - the first occurrence of the word "Christian" in the Bible). Further, Christians are portrayed as being evil by others (1 Pet. 4:12-16) - something which your letter confirms is the case. These type of misrepresentations of our faith have contributed to persecutions in many forms, including the murder of Joseph Smith and many other Mormons by mobs, often led and inspired by ministers pretending to defend Christianity. Say, if I can show you 50 ways in which your theology contradicts the Christianity of the Bible, would you agree that you are not a Christian and, in fact, part of a theological cult? And if I could find some shocking ways of misrepresenting your faith as something ugly and Satanic, would you buckle then? Of course not! That would be a silly exercise in tearing down another faith - but it's what anti-Mormonism is all about. Frankly, exclusionary games can cut both ways - but Latter-day Saints aren't in the business of telling others what they believe and ruling them out as cultists or non-Christians because of differences in theology. If someone claims to believe in Jesus, who are we to deny that, even if they've got some basics wrong? We invite all people to come unto Christ and learn the restored truths of His Gospel. We do not ask anyone to abandon any part of their faith that is correct, but to add the great blessings of the restored priesthood and Church to their lives. The restored Gospel of Jesus Christ is true! Be careful in how you judge it. Seek to understand before you yield to the cunning craftiness of men who paint good as evil. How can you be Christian if you subscribe to the views of Arius, who was rejected by Church Councils as non-Christian? Top Excommunication of Arius was not the same as denying his belief in Christ. He is routinely accepted as Christian in spite of losing the philosophical battle at Nicea. The noted Protestant scholar, F.F. Bruce, for example, in New Testament History (1972), pp. 302-304, 321-322, 325, accepts Arius as Christian. I can give a variety of additional references to the same affect, and am aware of no serious Bible scholar who will dispute that Arius was not a Christian. Can you provide a credible reference to this effect? You may recall that at the Nicene council, the Quartodecimans were also excommunicated - for holding a minority view on the proper date of Easter. Does that make them non-Christian? The issue for them and Arius was not whether they were Christian or not, but ORTHODOX or not. I am not Orthodox. Granted. But I believe in Christ, and also believe that my understanding of His nature as a corporeal, glorified being who was been seen standing on the right hand of the Father (Acts 7:55,56), who said His Father was greater than He (John 14:28), and who told Mary to touch Him not for He had not yet ascended to His Father, is compatible with the earliest established doctrines of Christianity. Arius actually continued to find support from many bishops in the Church after Nicea - even a majority of Eastern bishops- until the Council at Constantinople in AD 381, where it was largely buried, but Arianism was still routinely referred to as "Christian." There is simply no substance to the argument that an Arian view makes one non-Christian. More recent e-mail in 2001 made this statement: Arius held to a view of Christ and the trinity almost identically as the LDS church and thus the Council of Nicea took place to decide what it meant to be a Christian. Arius lost. Now, 1500 years later the LDS church wants to take up his cause. Well, ok, but the definition of a Christian must change then. My response: I must disagree! Arius was NEVER on trial for not being Christian, and even after he lost, there was never a question as to whether he and his supporters were Christians. They were excommunicated for differing over a doctrine, but have universally been recognized as Christians. The Arian controversy had nothing to do with the definition of Christian, but with a deep philosophical debate about God's nature. Doesn't it bother you that a key aspect of "normative" Christianity doesn't find itself at home in the world of Christ, Peter, and Paul, but evolves among the debates of men centuries later? I would say that we're not taking up the cause of Arius in 300 AD - we're returning to what Christ taught about Himself and the Father. They were separate beings. The Son was the Son of a Father, in whose image we and Christ are. Greek philosophy couldn't abide that, and the unity of the Godhead become distorted into a Being of one substance somehow having three persons in a way that none of the Apostles would ever have imagined. Since you only worship the Father and not Christ, why do you call your church the Church of Jesus Christ? Top Of course we worship Christ! Where did you get that idea? And since Christ is the foundation on which the Church is built, according to both the Book of Mormon and the Bible, of course we name His Church after His name. And so He commands. Say, based on your question, I bet you haven't got your free copy of the Book of Mormon - would you like one? It would resolve many of these issues about our views on Christ. (Call 1-888-537-7111 to receive a free Book of Mormon.) That's a short version of the longer answer I gave to the following e-mail from 2001, for which additional parts of my longer original answer follow: [He first argued that references to "God and Jesus Christ" by Paul and others do not require that God and Jesus are two beings.] The clincher, for me, in answering the intent of Paul is the worship ascribed to Jesus throughout the New Testament. Philippians 2:5-11 are probably the earliest words ever penned by Christians and they are blatantly worshipful toward Jesus. The song is about Jesus. It's about bending the knee to him. It speaks about his deity. I cannot imagine a Mormon today writing a hymn like this to Jesus today. Why would they? He is their brother. It seems very difficult to get around the fact that the earliest Christians ascribed worship to Jesus. If that was the case, it seems reasonable to think that Paul was putting "God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" on the same level. He was wishing peace to his audience from God.... What seems clear is that Paul is wishing peace and grace from not two but from ONE God whose name is (or who could be described as) "God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."... Finally, switching gears a bit, why call yourselves the church of Jesus Christ when, in fact, you are the church of "heavenly Father." In other words, you don't ascribe worship to Jesus (like you do to 'heavenly father'), it seems misleading frankly. It SEEMS like you worship Jesus like Christians in there. but, you explicitly do not worship your brother Jesus (which is but one aspect of his relationship to us per Heb 2). Thank you for the note! My goodness, Phil. 2:5-11 sounds perfectly LDS, and similar words are actually used in the LDS temple, expressing our worshipful reverence of the Savior, Jesus Christ- and yet the glory is to the Father. We worship Christ - to the glory of the Father. He came down and followed the path that brought Him fully back to the Father, seeking the glory that the Father gave Him. A separate Being that represents the Father and has become glorified and perfected like the Father, whose glory magnifies that of the Father - so strongly LDS in flavor! And the command to "let this mind be in you," calling us to also follow Christ, is another LDS touch (so willfully misunderstood by some critics). I'm disappointed that you thought something like Phil. 2 would not be found in an LDS writing or hymn. I'm especially pained that you have somehow been taught that we do not truly revere Christ but see him "as only a brother." That pains me about as much as it ought to pain you if I said that you don't really worship God, since to you he's only a "father" - just another family member. Christ IS technically our brother in the Spirit world - and is even called the firstborn among many brethren in the Bible (Rom. 8:29, see also Heb. 2:9-12, which you mentioned). Jesus was the greatest of all the spirits and was the Chosen and the Firstborn of God, having special honor and glory from God "before the world was" (John 17:5). The idea that Jesus was the Firstborn - and not the only offspring of God (Acts 17:28,29) is offensive to some, for it seems to imply that He was created by the Father or is consistent with the notion that we are, as LDS doctrine maintains, His brethren and sisters in a sense. However, the scriptures clearly indicate that Christ was the Firstborn (see Psalms 89:27; Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:5,6; Rev. 3:14 and Heb. 12:23). But He is much more than "just a brother" - we are infinitely indebted to Him, the Father and Author of our salvation, our Creator under direction of the Father, our Redeemer, Savior, and King, to whom every knee will bow in humble reverence. Of course we worship Him! Where did you hear we did not? That is troubling! As for our hymns and expressions of worship for Christ, please read through an LDS hymnbook and see what kind of hymns we sing - you'll be relieved to see that we have the attitudes expressed in Phil. 2:5-11. Try these hymns: 111 (Rock of Ages, esp. verse 2), 197 (O Savior, Thou Who Wearest a Crown), 196 (Jesus Once of Humble Birth), 195 (How Great the Wisdom and the Love), 193 (I Stand All Amazed), 189 (O Thou, Before the World Began), 187 (God Loves Us, So He Sent His Son), 181 (Jesus of Nazareth, Savior and King), 182 (We'll Sing All Hail to Jesus' Name), 86 (How Great Thou Art), 59 (Come, O Thou King of Kings) - and many, many more that testify that Christ is God, King, Lord, Savior, Redeemer, Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, etc. Since you have beliefs that differ from mainstream Christianity, isn't it misleading to use the term Christian? For honest communication, shouldn't a different term be used? Top Here is an example of a question or challenge on this issue, received in 2001: The beliefs that you profess are not commonly considered "Christian".... Let us not care who's theology is correct, if in fact either one is. My thought is, simply, that people have ideas that they instinctively associate with the word "Christian" that members of the LDS church do not. A few examples would be their version of the trinity, works not being necessary for salvation, and not being able to achieve Godhood because of the uniqueness of their God. If that is the case, then isn't presenting yourself as a "Christian" to someone who is uninformed of LDS beliefs deceptive? That thought occurred to me a couple months ago and it hasn't gone away. Now let us assume that LDS theology is correct, does that give the Church the right to use the word "Christian" in such a fashion that does not make the casual observer aware of the different theologies taught by it versus any other "Christian" church? If simple belief in Jesus Christ is all that is needed to be "Christian" then one could rationalize groups such as the Church of Scientology or the Hailbop Comet Cult or even the Islamic faith as "Christian". Please understand that I am only concerned with allowing truthful communication between members and non-members of the Church to occur. Honestly, I think that the LDS church as a whole needs to stop trying to apply the term "Christian" to itself and invent a new one, just for the sake of honest communication. Honest communication? Our critics are anxious to scare people from investigating the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by deceptively making them think that we don't believe in Christ or in the Bible, that we are some kind of fringe cult to be opposed at all costs. Deceptively, they often won't even use our correct name, relying primarily on the nickname "Mormons." They deceptively fail to disclose that we look to Christ for salvation, that we believe the witness of the Bible about Christ as the Son of God and Redeemer of our souls. And people who have heard those sermons or read such literature typically express SURPRISE when they talk to real Latter-day Saints and find out that we actually do believe in Jesus and revere Him as the Son of God, the Creator of Heaven and Earth, our Lord and God. So many times we hear this: "Oh, we had been taught that you weren't Christian." When they hear what we really believe, most people will instantly recognize that members of the Church of Jesus Christ who are baptized in His name and seek to follow Him and revere Him as the only source of grace and salvation must be Christian, regardless of other doctrinal differences. They know what Christian means: someone who seeks to follow Jesus Christ. So who is deceiving whom in talking about whether we are Christians or not? Pointing to specific doctrinal differences is a poor way to decide who is Christian, for there are hundreds of Christian churches and movements that have differed over almost every doctrinal issue you can imagine over the centuries. Between and within the numerous Christian churches of our day, debates still continue on many theological issues, such as how one is saved, whether baptism is needed, what resurrection means, what the nature of God and Christ are, whether the Bible is inerrant or not, what sacraments are needed, what hell is, whether we are predestined or not, whether works are essential for salvation, etc., etc. But people recognize that those with other views can still accept Christ and look to Him for salvation - after all, they are Christians. Our critics deliberately deceive people by saying we aren't Christian, misleading people into thinking that we don't believe in Jesus, don't believe in the Bible, and are something to be feared. Must we really require that people adhere only to the theological views that you find "acceptable" to be called Christian? The unity of doctrine that you imply is to be found among real Christians simply isn't there! There is no doubt that we differ on several doctrinal issues from mainstream Protestants and Catholics, just as they differ from each other. But to say that one group is not Christian just because of differences in doctrine is unfounded, if the accused group truly believes in Christ as the source of salvation. You would insult the Muslims to call them Christian: they accept Him as a historical figure, but NOT as the Son of God, the promised Messiah, who alone is the source of our salvation through His Atonement. Scientologists and other fringe groups that don't teach this usually have no interest in being called Christian. But what gives others the right to exclude the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as Christians, in a way that promotes misunderstanding of our core beliefs which are entirely focused on Christ as our Savior? The attempt to redefine Christian to exclude us is an utter insult to fairness and to intelligence, for it inevitably would exclude the earliest Christians as well or would exclude other groups that are unmistakably Christian. Your personal definition requires acceptance of the Trinity doctrine, as formulated by human councils centuries after Christ. Is there any evidence that Peter, James, and John taught the "sophisticated" and deeply philosophical doctrine of "one substance" without body, parts, and passions, with three persons somehow contained within one being? And when these formulations were presented for vigorous debate in the councils of the fourth and fifth centuries, the groups that held to older, less fashionable ideas (Arius and his followers, for example) were excommunicated BUT NEVER CALLED NON-CHRISTIANS. They were unmistakable Christians but were condemned for adhering to a minority position (by then) that had become labeled as a heresy. They differed in doctrinal understanding, not in their acceptance of Christ - just as Protestants and Catholics excommunicated and condemned each other in the theological battles of the Reformation. Must adhere to theologically popular doctrines to be counted as a Christian? Since when does the majority determine what is truth? It wasn't true in Christ's day, and I'd be surprised if it applies now. For example, the majority of churches in our day does not believe that we are created in the physical image of God, as the Bible plainly teaches (Gen. 1:26,27; Gen. 5:1-3; James 3:9; Col. 1:15; Heb. 1:1-3; Phil 3:19-21), but instead adheres to a formulation that came centuries after the Bible. We differ in this regard, but we would be ridiculously harsh to condemn the mainstream groups as being unchristian just because they don't believe the way we think they should, even if we can demonstrate that their beliefs on that issue derived from popular Neoplatonic doctrines of men and not from the pure revelations of God to man. Even though we are convinced they are wrong in some of their doctrines, if they sincerely believe in Christ and look to Him for salvation, we accept them as Christians - it's the only logical approach, the only approach consistent with any reasonable definition of Christian, the only fair approach - and the only Christian approach. It's a shame we don't receive the same civil courtesy.
  • The Vatican actually issued a document on this subject in relation to baptism in the mormon faith. According to the catholic church officially, the mormon church is NOT christian. The document can be found by doing a search on the vatican official website.
  • If you are going to argue that Mormons are Christians strictly on the basis that they believe in Jesus Christ and follow what they believe are His teachings, then you must also consider referring to Muslims as Christians as well. Why? Because Jesus is considered a prophet in Islam. As a matter of fact, He is called the "Seal of Holiness" by the Muslims. In the early century of the Church the question of whether or not one was truly a Christian was determined by two factors. The first factor was determined by whether or not one believed in the Trinity, which was belieived from the beginning, but only officially defined in the 4th century. The second as defined by St. Irenaeus in his classic work, "Against Heresies" as being in line with the first and greatest church founded by the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul in Rome. Mormons believe that Christ is a creation. This alone prevents them from being a Christian denomination in original sense of the word.
  • In my lifelong search for God I have been to almost every Christian church there is. I have to say that I have not seen any other denomination that lives as closely to the teachings of the Bible as the Mormons. What is TRUE Christianity? Is it God instructing us and telling us how to live our lives so that we can keep His commandments and obtain eternal life and salvation in His kingdom? Or is it men deciding to worship God in their OWN way, as they WANT to worship Him, changing the meaning of doctrines to fit their own desires and purpose? The Bible can be interpreted to define any denomination's point of view. Traditionally, Christians believe that we are saved by grace and not by our works. This was a doctrine that was introduced by men back in the days of Justin, Marcion, and Valentinus. Christ taught that men must be doers of the word, not just hearers only. The apostles taught that we must follow Christ's example, live as he lived. The Bible also says that we are only forgiven for sins that past, the ones we no longer DO; and that if we continue in sin then the atonement has no effect (Romans 3:25; Hebrews 10:26). Belief was the first step, the first rung on the ladder we must climb. It was the old law. Christ brought a higher law; we must no longer just believe but we must also do the works. There are many things in the Bible that traditional Christians can't see because they are so adamant on the things they have been taught by their own pasters and teachers that they refuse to see any other point of view. Sometimes I wonder who it is that has really been brainwashed. I have spent nine years studying the Bible, trying to prove either the Mormons or the Christians wrong, or rather, trying to prove who is right. And guess what? Using just the Bible, I have found more things that back up the Mormon's claims, than I have found to support traditional Christianty! These results will soon be published. At any rate, as to Christianity as it is viewed by the world, no, Mormons are not Christians according to other Christians. But then again, the majority of them live more like true Christians should. Maybe the world should take another look at them. Do we fulfill our own beliefs and desires in difining Christianty, or are we willing to accept what God defines for us. The answer is simple really. Forget what we want and ask God. If we're truly sincere and are willing to give up all things for him (including our own desires), then He will let us know the answers we seek. How? By the power of the Holy Ghost who will reveal it to our heart; he doesn't work through the mind, but through the heart. That is why our hearts must be pure with intent, because God will search our hearts before revealing any answers to us (1 Chronicles 28:9; Psalm 44:21; Jer. 17:10; Acts 15:8). But, every does have a right to their own opinion too, and this is just mine.
    • Gone!
      Mormons cannot be Christians. Please answer this? Who is Jesus and who is His Father? Is Jesus the brother of Satan? What God the Father once a man that was exalted to God from another planet? Does your god have a wife? Please use the Holy Bible in order to answer these questions. The Bible is God's infallible word. You shouldn't need the writings of Joseph Smith to find the answers to these questions. Thank you.
  • A Christian is one who believes in and follows the teachings of Christ. Mormonism is simply a denomination of Christianity.
  • They are a cult, which is rather a non Christian religion.
  • “We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense… it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.” —John Taylor (3rd LDS Prophet), 1858, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 167
  • Is Mormonism CONSIDERED a christian religion? To the Catholics and Protestants we are not Christian. But according to the Bible we are not only true Christians, but we are the ONLY Church on earth today that can make that claim. There is apparently two definitions of Christian today. The Catholics and Protestant Christians have their own definition of who or what constitutes a Christian. We LDS do not comply with their definition. Nor do we even want to do such. We will accept the words of the Bible over any other definitions. Just after Jesus ascended into heaven, after his resurrection, the 11 Apostles returned to Jerusalem to the upper room to select a man to replace Judas. They chose Matthias to fill the vacancy left by Judas. Then later,(10 days) The Holy Ghost came upon them filling them with power from on high, as promised. Later they were outside teaching the multitudes. Their first sermon, after they had been endowed with power from on high, contained 4 steps they must follow to become a member of Christs Church. This is found in Acts 2;37,38.."Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." There you have it, the only way a person can become a Christian, or a member of Christs Church! Step #1. Have Faith in Jesus Christ. 2. Repent of all your sins. 3. Be Baptized, for the remission of sins. 4. Receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Now the Catholics and Protestants may qualify for steps 1, and 2. But they cannot qualify for steps 3 and 4. Because to be baptized requires a man who holds the same Priesthood from God as the Apostles held, and they must be immersed in water. And to receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost, also requires a man with this same Priesthood, to lay hands on the head of the baptized individual. Even though the Catholics claim to have authority, they do not have the Keys of the Priesthood, which must be present on earth, to authorize the use of the Priesthood. The only Church which can qualify in every respect is the LDS Church. In 1829 John the Baptist appeared to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery and bestowed upon them the Aaronic Priesthood, which holds the authority to baptize. Then a short time later Peter, James and John appeared to Joseph and Oliver and conferred upon their heads the Melchezedek Priesthood and Ordained them Apostles, and bestowed upon them the Keys of the Priesthood. This makes The Latter Day Saints the only true Christians on earth today. We recognize the Catholics and Protestants as Christians, because they do worship Christ and do try to follow him and his teachings as they understand them. But the bottom line is YES Mormonism is and should be considered a Christian religion...whew6
  • Not according to most christians.
  • Yes, Mormonism is considered a Christian religion. Yet this is only within their own ranks and among none Christian people. In actuality, Mormonism is a pagan cult. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Mormonism+pagan&spell=1 http://www.leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/docs/mormonism/mormonism.html http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=is+mormonism+christian Mormons will deny this completely, even though they are on a sinking ship. They have free reign to announce the apostasy of all churches. To declare there church the one true church. To state that all are an abomination except theirs. Yet if you show them there own documentation and reveal the flaws within, you are a Mormon hater
  • No, they are in complete odds with Christianity. For decades they taught that all of Christendom was based in sin and of the devil.
  • It is a disgrace when someone pretends to know something and they don't, but that is almost the only type of response you get when you ask any question involving Christianity. The only authoritative definition of a Christian is in the bible, Romans 10:9 & 10. Anything else is "teaching for doctrines the commandments of men". No denomination teaches Romans 10:9 & 10, not Mormons, not Catholics, not Lutherans, not Baptists, not any of them. It is not reliable to ask people to tell you what the bible says. Many people will make up stuff because they don't know what it says, and many will make up stuff because they wish it would not say what it says. You just have to read it for yourself. Read a chapter of Proverbs every day. Proverbs has 31 chapters so you can keep your place by just looking at a calendar. There is no religion or nothing in Proverbs and you don't have to believe anything. Just read to find wisdom. When you are comfortable with that, then read the bible from Romans to 2 Thessalonians over and over until you start to remember what it says. That is the part that applies to Christians.
  • By the uniformed yes. By anyone who is Christian, no.
  • Yes, even their name indicates this the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We follow the doctrine of Jesus Christ.
    • Jewels Vern
      Calling a turd a candy bar does not make it so.
    • Linda Joy
      Like calling yourself a jewel doesn't make it so either?

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